Question for men: if mens' IQ scores are 4 points higher than women's, what are you complaining about?

Question

You're saying that feminism has hurt boys' educations...yet you are also saying your IQ scores are still higher than girls' IQ scores. I would like to see specific PROOF...evidence - that feminism is, in fact hurting males' educations. So far all I'm seeing is a hypothesis that has no valid evidence to back it up.

Your thoughts?

IQ is not the same thing as education, true. But where are the specific examples of how boys are being harmed in the educational system? I want real proof- valid statistics, test scores, something solid...so far all I'm hearing are theories that have no evidence.

You'd have to admit, without an education, IQ scores would be rather low, would they not?

I didn't mean for this to become a debate about IQ, but rather a question about specific examples of how boys are disadvantaged in education and the PROOF or EVIDENCE of this disadvantage.

If it is true (and I'm not going to say that it is), one poster here stated that "boys are not as strong in literacy as girls." And this disadvantages boys. Well if this is indeed true, then placing more emphasis on literacy skills would, in the long run, be beneficial to boys, as literacy skills really are needed in careers and in life. If we ignore the need for better literacy skills, would that not be more harmful to boys?

It seems to me that some men are pointing toward the fact that women's test scores are improving and somehow they've come to the conclusion that this is somehow taking something away from boys.

Answer 1

"No wonder so many writers began calling for change in the late 1990s. Reliable social-science data often lag a couple of years behind the calendar; it takes time to gather and compile a nation's worth of numbers. Stories about social trends that you read today may be describing the reality of 2004 or 2005. The groundbreaking boy books were a response to statistics portraying the worst of a physical, mental and moral health crisis.

There's more to the story, however. That downward slide has leveled off--and in many cases, turned around. Boys today look pretty good compared with their dads and older cousins. By some measures, our boys are doing better than ever.

Boys in the fourth, eighth and 12th grades all score better--though not dramatically better--on math tests than did the comparable boys of 1990. Reading, however, is a problem. The standardized NAEP test, known as the nation's report card, indicates that by the senior year of high school, boys have fallen nearly 20 points behind their female peers. That's bad, not because girls are ahead but because too many boys are leaving school functionally illiterate. Pollack told me of one study that found even the sons of college-educated parents had a 1 in 4 chance of leaving school without becoming proficient readers. In an economy increasingly geared toward processing information, an inability to read becomes an inability to earn. "You have to be literate in today's world," says Sommers. "We're not going to get away with not teaching boys to read."

Even here, though, there may be grounds for a hopeful outlook. Boys at the fourth- and eighth-grade levels are showing modest improvement in reading and now trail their female classmates by slightly smaller margins than before. If that's a sign of improved teaching and parental focus on reading, then we ought to expect gains in the higher grades soon.

About the only scale on which today's boys are faring dramatically worse than the boys of my era is the bathroom scale. When I was in high school in the late 1970s, roughly 1 boy in 20 was obese; today 1 boy in 5 is.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1647452-2,00.html

These kids are getting fat and becoming functionally illiterate because they spend their free time sitting on their butts playing video games.

*shock* *shock* who would have guessed??? Did you read the bit about "parental focus on reading"? Why are these kids not having their high-tech toys taken away - and replaced with books? I think another problem too is that no teacher will fail kids anymore. In my day, if you didn't get the requisite grades you would flunk the class - or even the entire grade - and do it all over AGAIN. If every child passes despite their failing grades... why is it surprising that they are left functionally illiterate in the end?

See also:
The Myth of 'The Boy Crisis' (April, 2006)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/07/AR2006040702025_pf.html

Answer 2

They can't really complain at all, since languages and literacy have been staples of education since ancient times, when men were trained to take positions as public servants. Boys were expected to memorize and recite, become expert public speakers, learn Latin and numerous other languages, and study literature and argumentation. This was what education consisted of until the late 19th century. I would in fact say America's current curriculum has far less of a language and literacy focus than past European curriculums, through which boys received far superior educations than their female counterparts.

Answer 3

An IQ is a learning ability and with all the help that women get in schools and scholarships you get for simply being female you are taking the spot of someone who could have gotten a place in college for simply being smart enough.The only solution I see is tax the NFL and send everyone to college who wants to go!

Answer 4

IQ and education are not the same thing.

*edit* IQ tests tend to focus on several areas which include language comprehension, numerical aptitude, pattern recognition and problem solving. While there is a correlation between education and IQ, there is no clear causal link (do people with naturally high IQs benefit from education, or does education lead to a higher IQ - and if both how to which)

I do not know the answer to whether girls improving educational success is happening at the expense of boys, but I do know that more emphasis is being placed on different learning styles within teacher training.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would suggest girls tend to be more passive and complaint towards authority and therefore be naturally prone to achieving better results than boys within the current educational system, and the fact that their results are becoming a little better than boys perhaps reflects more equal standards of education and better attitudes from teachers.

On the whole, I think the educational system causes many boys and girls to feel they have failed (those who aren't getting a grades). The small disparities which occur between boys and girls are in my mind a trivial problem compared with overhauling the whole system so that it provides value and a sense of worth to the kids who go through it. Regardless of what sex they are.

Answer 5

The education system is putting boys at a disadvantage. Here's a clear proof of this

http://web.mac.com/wcbii/GenderDif/Welcome.html

"""""""""On average, males score higher on standardized tests while females make higher grades in school. This is true for the 2004 SAT test takers. The combined mean score for males is 1049 and 1005 for females. Males taking the test have a mean grade point average of 3.19, females 3.35."""""""""

Boy scored higher than girl in SAT and other test but they are falling behind girls in schools. There is definitely something wrong with the education system, and they are affecting young boys.

Answer 6

IQ tests don't measure intelligence. They actually are a way to measure academic potential. So yes, if boys have greater potential then the burden of proof is on the accusers to show that feminism is undermining that potential.

Even if it were true (which it's not) the solution would be so simple for men --become more involved in educating young boys. Unfortunately, the job is pretty thankless and doesn't pay well. If they truly cared to remedy this egregious injustice, it should all be worthwhile.

Answer 7

Without going into details, I just want to say that four points is not a statistically significant difference. A typical standard deviation on IQ tests is 15 points.

There is not evidence to support that men score consistently higher than women on IQ tests. Men may score at the highest end of the normal curve, but they also tend to score at the lowest.

IQ scores predict achievement and, in fact, can be quite high without an education.

Answer 8

Because you created a system based for girls learning because they were opressed back in the day when there was no knowlodge. Feminists want to get back at us, they steered boys learning into a wall. And i'll explain. Feminists are taking over every public aspect of life. The media portrays us as dumb human beings yet you are superior. The news, only men's crimes are made out to be massive murders etc. The legal system gives mothers more rights than they do fathers, no male role model. And you don't think any of this affects young boys? Open your eyes Tera.

Answer 9

Blaming feminists has become a fad in the education and economic realm. Pretty lame and paper thin complaint. There is no evidence of feminism having a negative effect on education.

Statistics are only taken in sample quantity of the general population. Give the task to five different sources and one is bound to get five different statistics. Can intelligence or education really be measured accurately? I honestly do not believe it can.

The actual number of possible intelligence areas is not completely covered in these tests.

Answer 10

Who said that? On average, men and women's IQ scores are about equal. Men are more represented in the left tail, but they are also more represented in the right tail. So, populationally, it evens out.

Now, I refuse to start anything about feminism hurting male education tonight. I do think that what comes out of " studies " programs hurts every ones education.

Now do not confuse theory with evidence. Theory is that which is supported by enormous amounts of evidence.

No, I do not have to admit that without education that IQ scores would be lower. In the accomplishment parts of tests, yes, but in the G laden portion, not so much. Rotating objects in space, reverse span and reaction time are not culturally based, or, dependent on education. They measure raw potential and are the weighted parts of the test.

Research IQ tests.

It is not a debate, but you must know by now I will correct sloppy thinking when I see it.

Like I said, not tonight. Read this. " Why Gender Matters " by Leonard Sax M.D., PhD It is pertinent to your question.