Anyone got any real solid historical evidence that Christmas was originally pagan?

Question

Lost of people keep saying this, but I haven't seen any documentary or archeological evidence to back up the claim.

I do know that 25th December was suggested for Christmas in the early 3rd century. That it was being celebrated before the early 4th century. That a roman emperor instituted a pagan festival on that date in the late 3rd/early 4th century. That Saturnalia was three days earlier. That the date was chosen in Rome and so had nothing to do with celts, anglo-saxons or vikings.

I also know there are loads of web sites out there making the claim but none of them, as far as I know, provide any real solid historical evidence. Can anyone help? Where is the evidence? Where are the orginal documents or inscriptions?

Please don't just post references to web sites or books. If you have read them, just tell me what actual historical evidence - documents, archeology, artefacts - they reference. And I don't mean more references to other books or web sites.

As far as I know Odin rode in a chariot pulled by horses. I would also be interest to hear what the earliest reference is to St Nicholas riding in a flying sleigh or cart. As far as I know, its an invention of Washington Irving and not part of any tradition. But perhaps someone out there knows different.

The calendars - as I understand it by the Julian calendar, the solstice drifted earlier so, at the time the 25th was chosen, the solstice was the 22nd.

Mongoose. I would like to know your originla source for the supposed birthday of Mithras. The feast of the "unconquered sun" was, as far as I know, instituted around 300AD by which time the solstice was NOT 25th December by the Julian clanedar.

Yes I know about Stonehenge, but it was out of use by Roman times and of no interest to the people in Rome who set the date of Christmas.
If you can provide the original source for the Mithras birthday story, you will be the first.

Answer 1

There's actually a lot of evidence for pre-christian celebrations around the midwinter or solstice period.

Archaeologically, there are many stone and earthwork sites constructed with a specific alignment for the suns lowest point in winter. Maeshowe in the Orkneys and Newgrange in Ireland are two examples.

Documentary evidence from written history records that the death and symbolic rebirth of Osiris was celebrated in Egypt at this point in the year. Ancient Greece had a celebration called Lenaea, for the death and rebirth of Dionysus. The birthdays of the Persian gods Ishtar and Mithra were celebrated on the winter solstice.

Roman authors record many pre-christian celebrations, including their own celebrations of Saturnalia and Ops that began before the birth of Jesus as separate feast days.

Later, during the reign of Emperor Aurelian the celebrations of the births of several gods including; Apollo, Baal, Dionysus, Mithra and Perseus were combined in a single festival called The Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. Celebrated on the 25th of December (Julian Calender in use at the time) the festival was on the winter solstice, later changes to the calender moved the date to where it is now.

This was most likely the pagan festival that gave its timing to christmas. The Northern European pagan traditions have provided quite a lot of the trappings we now associate with christmas; holly, mistletoe, yule logs, reindeer, an evergreen tree and a fat bloke in a furry suit being some of them.


The 'unconquered sun' was first celebrated under the reign of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, who died 222CE. It wasn't a hugely popular move by Marcus since he was trying to replace Jupiter as top Deity with a Syrian one, nevertheless, the unconquered sun (or sol invictus in latin) became a popular theme with roman emperors from this time onwards, appearing on coins and carvings until they gave up all that pagan stuff and converted to Christianity. The earliest written source dating the celebration is the Calendar of Filocalus, which credits Emperor Aurelian with it, interestingly the Calendar is also the first written record of 25th December being celebrated by Christians as the birthday of J.C.

Answer 2

The Winter Solstice was on the 22,without a doubt it was a great time of festivity right back to 5000 BC. The alignment to the setting sun can still be seen at Stonehenge, and remnants of huge feasts that went on for days at that time have been found at the village where the Stonehenge people lived--Durrington Walls, 2 miles away.
the Roman god Mithras,whose mythos bears a strong resemblance to that of Jesus, was traditionally born on Dec 25. (he also died in spring and was resurrected.)

Answer 3

Because we are dealing with cultural traditions, most of it is word of mouth. So no, I don't think you will find any good rock solid evidence.

But you won't find any evidence that it is a Christian holiday either.

So we have too look at the imagery and see what we find. We have Santa, a magic guy who flies around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer. How does this image related to a middle-eastern religion? Do it seem to fit better with any other culture?

Then we look at Germanic / Scandinavian mythology. Thor rides around in a cart pulled by goats. That sound pretty close. Then we have Wooten (who is a cultural offshoot of Odin) who ride around in a sleigh pulled by reindeer. That sound even closer.

So it does look like the two traditions may have mixed.

Also, the whole concept of toys, Santa, and reindeer is a fairly new concept. Christmas was traditionally a "church holiday" where you want to Mass and sang and did things like that. No a real big time fun holiday. Those were more harvest time and springtime things.

It's much like Easter. All the rabbits and eggs are clearly fertility symbols. They have nothing to do with the resurrection of Christ. But if it were part of a fertility festival, like Isis or Ishtar, that makes more sense.

Personally, I say don't let it bug you. The holiday means what you think it means. Celebrate your own way.

Joe

Answer 4

By the time they designated Christmas as December 25 there had been enough "drift" of the equinox on the Julian calendar to 3 days later. This was not corrected until later under Pope Gregory the Great when he instituted the Gregorian calendar.

Answer 5

I have never read in the scriptures anywhere that the birth of Jesus Christ was to be celebrated howbeit he was actually born in the latter month of September or early October. So many pagan and political correctness ideas have crept in when celebrating the holiday, like the yule log, the decorated tree, mistletoe and all the forms of Santas, ect, but God says not to have anything represented in the form of an idol something to hold any credence to being worshipped. A baby in a manger is a far cry from what Christ appears in the book of revelation to look like. To be on the safe side it might be well to look to the death and resurrection and what its meaning are for mankind rather than speculate on mans theories and whims of imaginations. Web sites are just that: sites to web out info to tickle the ears of hungry readers. Truth will set you free from difficulties and thats priority in my book. Christ will be returning to earth soon and we can ask Him alot about these things, reckon?

Answer 6

Hey well really, if you're THAT curious - why don't YOU do the research. Why are you being so lazy hey? "Please don't just post references to web sites or books. If you have read them, just tell me what actual historical evidence - documents, archeology, artefacts - they reference. And I don't mean more references to other books or web sites." What kind of trip are you on? You lazy so and so. You don't want much do you. EDIT ____ No you're right - I don't know. But if I was interested in finding out - I'd find out myself. To say that you've done the research and come up with zilch means you're either crap at research (sorry for being blunt) or you've just not looked in the right places is all. Not my problem though - I'm just a bit irked by your "do the work for me" approach.

Answer 7

The pagan winter festivals are a fact. The winter solstice most closely correlates to the date of Christmas, and has been celebrated by pagans in England for thousands of years, even to this day. This is also called "Yule" (Yuletide?)

Samhain and Imbolc are other pagan festivals. Imbolc is a Spring festival of renewal (remind you of Easter?)

You won't find "pagan texts" from pre-roman Britain for good reason. Just about everyone was illiterate.

Answer 8

Christmas was never pagan. You can tell that by the CHRIST bit. However the reason Christmas falls on the date it does is believed to be the result of the Roman Emperor who realised that the pagans would be more likely to convert to Christianity if the major festivals coincided. As no one knows for sure what time of year Jesus was born it made sense to put it at a convenient time like that.

Answer 9

I think this picture does it for me.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/picture.php?id=88

The winter solstice sunset at Stonehenge. I think this indicates that there was certainly a celebration of mid winter.


Now, lets turn the question around. Is there any evidence to suggest that Christmas is a Christian celebration? Is there anything in the Bible that suggests a celebration of Christmas? or was it introduced by the Romans at a later date?

Answer 10

Yule, 21st December is the birth of the sun in the pagan belief, hence the birth of Jesus the son of God. It is also the winter solstice