Would you advocate waterboarding in this scenario?

Question

Since it's easy to sit in judgment and declare this as cruel and horrible torture when you have no connection to anyone who is in harm's way from the detainee...
Imagine your child has been kidnapped and is currently buried alive with limited oxygen. The kidnapper has been caught but he refuses to divulge the child's location. Your kid is going to die if the police can't get the man to talk... would you still call waterboarding 'torture' and rule it out as a method in saving your child's life?

When you're dealing with a potential terrorist... you could be saving the lives of thousands of people... all of whom are someone's child, or spouse, or parent, or sibling, or friend. Do you think it's fair to condemn them to death so some terrorist won't be terrified into talking?

Jester... if you read my question, there is nowhere that I am advocating killing anyone or denying a trial to someone.
I'm rather disappointed that someone would answer in that way and disregard the very real fact that, within reason, sometimes the outcome justifies the methods. We're NOT talking about killing them... we're talking about using terror against terror to avoid innocent lives being lost.

Wounded Duck... yours is what I call the 'paranoid response'. The government is going to pick you up as a terrorist with no evidence and then waterboard you to get you to talk.
This will, of course, scar you for life and mess you up mentally...

(oh, let's overlook the fact that our troops are waterboarded as part of their training and don't have such issues... that's data that doesn't support our hypothesis of it being damaging to the psyche on a longterm basis)

qb- when dealing with an enemy, one must be willing to use equal force or one cannot win. If we are unwilling to do what it takes, THEN the terrorists have already won, because they were right that we lacked the stomach to fight them.

Answer 1

Amen brother!

While we're at it, I think we should just kill off all convicted sex offenders, since every bit of modern science tells us they will never be cured... so they'll always be a threat to our children.

As long as we're doing that, I think we should allow citizens to shoot any illegal immigrants they see crossing the border, since we know that they will just keep coming back if they're caught, and since they're obviously a threat to our safety given the increase in stories regarding crimes committed by illegals.

And what's with giving pedophiles trials? Those sick individuals should just be shot, preferably by the victim's famliy.


....or we could realize that the principles of fairness, equality, and morality must be held firm in the face of all bias. It's hard, even for me, to think about how I would feel if a family member was kidnapped or murdered... but I can only hope that I would be able to stay true to my own virtues.

Answer 2

The lawyers refer to your scenario as the ticking bomb situation.

I think the new Attny General took that into consideration when he seemed to waffle on the question.

He was not. He's a lawyer and was speaking like one. After all, that's what we're paying him for.

The reason we still discuss the issue is what the Attny General was trying to say; The congress had at least two opportunities to clearly define in law exactly what torture is and what it is not. The also had an opportunity to assign jurisdiction in your scenario. They did not. Morally, they had no ground to stand on at that point to ask the question. It was political grand-standing pure and simple.
Without any definition in law, he could not answer the question definitively and would decide as the case arose taking into account all the mitigating circumstances. Again, that's what we're paying him for.

If I were in the scenario you mention, I would bail out the suspect and take him into my personal custody.
He might not like the idea that water-boarding is not high on my list of immediate remedies. I would skip over it to something a little more profound.

Answer 3

Yes, in that scenario.
I think it is a good way to extract information only if it is the last recourse. We can not continue to play this political kindness game and be expected to be taken serious by those who want us dead.
P.S. When those terrorists cut the heads off those detainees and displayed it on the media was not that cruel and unusual punishment. Waterboarding can be a safe way to get info as long as one doesn't go to far. It is a tool to be used when there is no other recourse. Remember those whom would be a subject could care less about life especially ours.

Answer 4

Let's change the scenario. Your son has been arrested for being a terrorist. He's not, it's a mistake. Would you feel the same after he was returned to you, with psychological damage, physical problems and a mistrust of the government he will live with for the rest of his life! Torture is what we have fought against for a hundred years or more. If we let fear change our morals, the terrorists have already won!

Answer 5

One problem with your question, as in all justifiable torture scenarios, is the assumption that the person being tortured will tell you the truth about what he knows as opposed to say anything that person thinks the torturer wants to hear. Another problem is that it assumes that all these alleged terrorists are guilty. Another problem is the moral assumption that the ends justify the means. I guess I'm just not for American sponsored torture. I think this country is better than that. I think there are better ways to protect us than to go down to a low common denominator.
My question to you is, would you prefer a country in which we lose our moral high ground and act as unethically as those whose conduct we despise?

Answer 6

In your scenario, I would honstly advocate anything at all to bring my child home safely. The welfare of those responsible for harming her would not be something I would care about. I would only care about her safety.

And you make a very good point. Torture is never a good thing, but used to save hundreds or thousands of lives, I can see a kind of justification for it. Just my personal opinion as a mother, and having lost my cousin in WTC on 9/11.

Answer 7

I support the use of waterboarding, and do not think it's torture. You bring up a good scenario, I doubt it will change any minds, because many of the people opposed to it, feel instead of think..

Answer 8

Absolutely.
If you are not willing to fight then shut up get the **** out of the ring

Answer 9

Let the torture begin!