Is all this "keeping virginity" stuff Contrary to Life?

Question

Much as I hate to invoke Nietszche on this of all forums, he said some pretty good stuff on this topic.

Quote supplied from http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/nietzsche/section2.rhtml

Zarathustra also preaches against those who promote ideas that are contrary to life. His primary target is religion, which focuses on the spirit and the afterlife. We are creatures of flesh and blood, and those who wish to turn attention elsewhere are fundamentally opposed to life. Meekness and pity are the virtues of the weak, promoted by those who resent the power of the strong. There is no virtue in being meek if one is too weak to be capable of being otherwise. Zarathustra praises the three things religion condemns the most: sex, the lust to rule, and selfishness.

All three, when pursued with a good conscience, are celebrations of one’s life and power. Religion, however, is not the only threat to leading a free and healthy life: the state, too, tries to mold people into a mediocre mob, and the egalitarian spirit of democracy is bred from the same resentment and hatred of life as religion.

Answer 1

Wow. Thank you.
"Zarathustra praises the three things religion condemns the most, sex, the lust to rule, and selfishness."

Sex I understand. Sexual liberation is spiritual liberation: sex is good for the body, the mind, the soul. Your soul can't be free if your body is in chains; if your body is in chains, your soul can't be free. We are so sexually repressed in North America in everything from censoring Mapplethorpe to covering David's flaccid penis. There is so much left unsaid, and so much being said for us about the meaning(s) of sex. There is no freedom, even and especially in sex. But sex is as close as it gets: it's something to be praised. Lust to rule and the selfishness are another matter. The best sex in the world won't make a difference when selfishness and lust to rule are both considered virtues.

Answer 2

I agree that the state of one's hymen does not make or break her good character. That being said.... isn't the point of religion and other sources of "good values" to help adults move beyond acting like toddlers? Any fool - heck, any 3 year old - can be totally self centered. The urge to be the most important and the most powerful person around should be gently pushed out of children; that's called growing up.

Sex is a whole 'nother ball of wax. It is not "good" or "bad" intrinsically, though it can be either a very spiritual act or an act which degrades the spirit. But pleasure must be tempered with caring for others. This is what makes us adults, not children.

Answer 3

"Zarathustra praises the three things religion condemns the most: sex, the lust to rule, and selfishness."

I like Neitzche's philosophy and i think he is also famous for his self-contradicting views and sarcasm. His world views are inconsistent and NOT "practical" enough to be accepted as a common standard.

By practical, i mean not everyone (including those who understand & praise his philosophy) would choose to practice the values he was preaching or choose "to be like him", so to speak.



Edit ---

Katiana, unless a person can read German I don't believe the person would be able to understand Nietzche better than any one of us here. English translations of Nietzche are far from perfect but thats because of the limitations in the english language itself.

Answer 4

Nietzsche had a confused idea about species selection, which is expressed in a racial selective manner, group selection manner. Group selection initiates the question; " what would a group selection adaption look like? " Spencer and Galton could not answer this question and Nietzsche could not either.

This is the problem with much philosophy. It makes claims about the natural world, somewhat like religion, which have not an iota of empirical support.

Nietzsche seems to commit the " naturalistic fallacy " with the above passage. Just because something is natural, " the lust to rule ", is not to say that it is good, or even desirable.

Answer 5

I agree that religion has promoted self-denial in many people, they repress themselves to a point which produces perversions or constant guilt of something that is natural. My definition of perversion does not include mutually consensual sexual activities, no matter how strange they may seem to others, only what is done without the consent of any party directly or indirectly involved.

The human is meant to procreate or else we, as a specie become extinct, therefore sex is simply a part of being human.
People place a sacred value on virginity because of the puritanical influence we have had instilled through generations and generations of religion dictating what is moral and what is not, so even in our current society which may not consider itself in its' entirety, religious, the ideals have remained.

By the way, I have read loads of Nietzsche (mainly the Kaufman translations), some of his material was purposely distorted by his sister, so that is probably one of the reasons some of it seems to contradict itself and people tend to misunderstand him.
It's nice to see someone use Nietzsche's material without bashing him, I don't see that often.

Edit: Whiner, I wasn't referring indirectly to you or any other answerer in particular, but rather, in a general sense, since I've discussed Nietzsche's writings with some friends who study German philosophy as I have, and some who truly dislike Nietzsche, friends who are German themselves, have read his material in their native language and contributed to what I have learned and still learning, so do have some basis to comment on, not only the Kaufman translations.
As a person who has translated material myself, I also understand the responsibility of defining words in another language, as accurately as possible.
This being said (or typed), I do agree with your comment entirely and appreciate the input. :-)

Answer 6

Psychopaths and sociopaths also view "meekness", kindness, real empathy, generosity and forgiveness as "weaknesses to be exploited" as well. To promote selfishness and domination is something psychopaths do! Not sure I would like those kinds of people "running things". Take a good look at those who fit this description who have been in power- and the damage they have done. I'm not at all certain that this is good for anyone. It takes far greater strength to be diplomatic, forgiving, empathetic, giving, and tolerant than it does to be brutish and harsh.

Answer 7

Nietzsche said some brilliant things, but much of this is rubbish.

Which is not to say that it isn't foolish emphasizing virginity, per se, over the virtues of self-restraint, temperance, personal responsibility, and deriving self-respect from sources other than sexuality (values we should be instilling in both young men and women).

Answer 8

well nietszche had some strange ideas on christianity and all its values which he considered to be against life......
for some aspects i do agree with him....but i think keeping verginity and live our sexual life i a serious, and mature way is not negative...on the contrary: it is giving value to our body, and respect our feelings....
how can this be antivital?

ps. sorry if i made mistakes but i'm italian!

Answer 9

If you have a kid when you're 11, you probably won't be able to take care of it very well, and you might both die. That'd be contrary to life. Even if you don't both die, if you aren't old enough to take care of a kid very well, there are still other reasons you shouldn't have a kid, and they should be obvious.

Answer 10

Keeping your virginity is not contrary to life.

P.s. have you ever noticed how many crimes in society are directly related to the permissiveness of sex, lust and selfishness?

Does this aid life??