Enoch Powell; the regurgitations of his 1968 classic is all the rage right now...but 'skin colour'?

Question

1968...the only Poles you would see where the ones who fought with the allies in the Second World War, along with offsprings. Fast forward nearly forty years, with mass influx of Eastern Europeans in major cities of the UK. What would Mr. Powell have thought of them if he was still alive? Suspect no one knows, as he was more concerned at the 'grinning piccaninnies' supposedly pushing faeces through OAP's letterboxes in his Wolverhampton constituency in the time when 'colour bar' meant plenty in the so-called 'swinging sixties'. Why is the classic 'Rivers of Blood' speech by Mr. Powell being used to divert attention away from something which belongs to the 21st century; Euro insecurity?

Nice one hooded...might, at some stage give you the 'thumbs up' for agreeing that Mr. Powell said it - by the way, had to do an essay on it at college in 1989...could have entered a section that was sweet & rosey, but like it or not, that was one of the main claims his worshippers never failed to repeat...most of whom (who I suspect were not born in 1968) being on Yahoo Answers over the past ten or so days.

Yes Brenda...months before the troubles - bet he went down well on the Falls Road.

Ricardo...your 'Whatever..He was still right' seems to have got you a 'thumbs up'. As I've caught you at your intellectually shining hour, has Mr. Powell's hand-grenade of thirty-nine years ago made it easier...or harder for immigration to be discussed? Methinks the latter, as from 1968 anyone who mentioned immigration - and even race would have to pick through the shrapnel of Mr. Powell's speech in order to make oneself heard...with the populist media making it hard for anyone who wished to discuss race and immigration of recent years, rather than nearly forty.

Hmm, Paul...another on who sees history through broken specs. Could be the drugs were being sold by West Indian/Asian nurses who worked long hours in the early fifties...could be the violence of the Teddy Boys on new immigrants from 1955 onwards passed you by.

Thank you, Blethers...thought I was going to be run ragged by pseudo-London dockers!
Agree with you over Mr. Powell's 'Look-What-I-Read-At-School' references...'twas the Swinging Sixties with Poor Cow, Up The Junction and a trip to Southend at the weekend! I was only nine months old when Mr. Powell aired his speech, and have been amazed at how England reacts when the country is somewhat lagging behind -mention Rivers Of Blood, and all will be well! Remember that Radio 4 investigation of the speech...didn't someone from the Wolverhampton Express & Star know of the old lass - what was it now...the only white person in the street - but they 'kept quiet'?

Answer 1

Enoch Powell responded to criticism of his 'Rivers' speech by saying he wished he had made clear that he was quoting his constituents, not endorsing their racial fears, but pointing out that such fears would cause division in UK.
He was a nationalist, mainly warning that UK joining the EEC would end the power of Britons to make and obey their own laws via their own parliament. Hence his 'Vote Labour' speech of 1974.
So, he would today probably oppose massive immigration from Poland to UK on grounds of their upbringing under a corrupt communist government.

Answer 2

Powell was a typical product of his generation who were educated when the British Empire was a major force in the world and most people like him expected it to go on for ever because the "natural" order ot things had always been that the white man ruled the black man.
What he didn't take into account was the fact that empires come to depend eventually on the very people that they have suppressed and the colonials eventually want to live like their masters.
The tension that this causes is the reason for fear on both sides.
The Polish situation is entirely different and is a sign of the new era of globalisation, cheap travel and easy movement of labour to the most lucrative markets.
The British have been doing this for years.
I know many building workers who have gone to Spain and France not to mention the many thousands of Britons who are buying up holiday homes and investment properties in Bulgaria and other eastern european countries.

Answer 3

As one who was around, all be it as a child when Enoch was giving it large.

The rivers of blood speach stands as all that is reactionary in British approach to race, Enoch was a hell of a scholar and probably thought he was very clever making a classical reference but to the average uneducated white worker (such as my own father by the way) they kind of missed the point and took him literally. It must also be remembered that rivers of blood had flowed only 25 years earlier and nobody wanted anymore of that (a lot of that blood was 'colonial' by the way).

As far as hoodie is concerned one line that refers to grinning picanninies is one too many mate, you clown.

There was a radio 4 investigation of the rivers speach which had relied heavily on a letter from a 'constituent' this constituent could never be traced by the BBC , Enoch would never identify her, it was a put up job by a racist bigot.

As for the Poles and such, come on in lads and lasses, have kids, obey the law ,make the law as such as Baroness Scotland now do ( a woman who would have been called a picanninnie before 1965 race relations act)

Answer 4

Differences in culture often correspond to differences in race.
There is no doubt Powell was right and his opponents were wrong, including Heath who sacked him and died in the very week where there finally were something like 'Rivers of blood' in London. It was arrogance to imagine that we could make our society multicultural, ie a cluster of ghettoes and not have a price to pay.
As Powell said, it is a matter of numbers. But this is what makes the matter so intractable: how to say to immigrant n that he can enter and immigrant n +1 that he can't?

Answer 5

Have you actually read Enoch Powell's speech, in full? The reference to grinning picaninnies was half a sentence in a very long speech. I suspect that you have chosen this particular reference as it is one of the most emotive. When he delivered the speech it was mainly black people coming to this country that was giving various groups cause for concern.

To the inevitable thumbs downers, at least take the time to read the full speech before clicking the thumb.


Bletherskyte - Ok, so you didn't read the full speech, and you have chosen to misinterpret my answer and call me a clown. The word 'picaninnies' was acceptable back then, but I didn't say it was acceptable now, did I? It was once also acceptable to send small boys up chimneys but not now - it's called progress. It seems that someone has traced the lady referred to in his speech, so perhaps not 'a put up job by a racist bigot'? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=433497&in_page_id=1879
(Oops, Daily Mail!!!)

Answer 6

I remember the river of speech in the six's Enoch Powell got sent to northen Ireland because he was an embarrassment to the government of the time.

Answer 7

I see most Eastern Europeans getting jobs and working. Unlike the immigrants of the Powell era who deal drugs and mug and do push faeces through letterboxes.

Yes it is to do with skin colour.

Answer 8

Whatever..He was still right