South Vietnam under Ngo Dinh Diem?

Question

what was south vietnam like under the rule of Ngo Dinh Diem?

Answer 1

In 1956 Ngo Dinh Diem called off the elections that were set up under the Geneva Accords, since he (and the U.S.) knew that Ho Chi Minh would have won. (Even President Eisenhower admitted that 80% of the Vietnamese people would have possibly voted for Ho Chi Minh). He then assumed power of "South" Vietnam. He alienated many of the peasants by by cancelling their traditional local elections, and forcing them off their land into "agrovilles" surrounded by barbed wire.

Despite the corruption, oppression of political opponents, and the fact that Diem was an unpopular leader - the U.S. propped up his dictatorship. He promoted his military leaders on the basis of loyalty, and not merit; the sure way to remain in power - but also the sure way to lose the war. When Ngo Dinh Diem was overthrown and assassinated in 1963 - none of his generals came to defend him. In fact, it was the U.S. who backed the coup that removed him from power and installed a new leader.

* typoifd, the TV show M*A*S*H* is not a good source about the war in Vietnam - it was set in KOREA, and never shows boths sides of the conflict - only the side of the U.S. medical personnel. Also, "Vietnamization" came years later when Nixon was the President, and it was obvious that war would last many more years......

Answer 2

Ngo Dinh Diem Death

Answer 3

Those who felt cheated took up arms again and the effects were the Vietnam War which they won.

Answer 4

Yes, corrupt and greedy.

This was part of the US policy of 'Vietnamisation' - to make the war look like it was about Vietnam (sound familiar yet?)

In fact, he was a puppet of the US government, with rigged elections, to put someone in power who would support US policies and continue to fight the North. Torture, arrest, conscription, destruction of the economy was the norm.

A good source for info on Vietnam remains the TV series MASH.

The was in Vietnam was enlarged illegally during this period to included the bombing of Laos and Cambodia (attacks on the latter eventually resulting in the rise of the Khmer Rouge - once supported by the US).

There are a few sources that support the US use of surrogates in Vietnam and elsewhere but it is difficult to find a country where the use of such politicians has not resulted in human rights abuses and the eventual rise of nationalistic and isolationist states.

Answer 5

Do not listen to typoifd he is a fool.

Diem was corrupt, and a lot less than competent. No doubt about that.

He was also WAY better than the Communists.

Diem's governement was, from what I understand, a lot like living in Chicago during the 1920s and 30. Most government had broken down, you had to bribe people to get things done, but day to day life pretty much worked as normal...(as long as you paid off the right cops).

South Vietnam had corruption... but it also had religious freedom, a capitalist economy, wealthy people, jobs, industry, some dissident political parties, (though to say the elections were "Free" in the US sense is probably not true) all of which went away when the Communsits took over in 1975...they had a secret police force, but it was a lot smaller than the Communist one.

One good source (better than a 1970s comedy about the Korean War) http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat5.htm#Diem

gives this as the number of people who died under Diem.

South Vietnam, Diem regime (1955-63)
Rummel: 39,000 democides, incl...
Relocation deaths: 24,000
Prison deaths: 4,000
Executed: 10,000
Bombing/shelling: 1,500

Of couse you need to remember that there was a WAR going on at the time...(a lot of those executed would be people who were supporting and aiding the Viet Cong) and compare that to what was going on in NORTH Vietnam at that time...

North Vietnam (1954-75): 50 000
Michael Clodfelter, Vietnam in Military Statistics (1995): 15,000 executions, 1954-56; 1,000 killed and wounded in peasant uprising, 1956-57
Bernard Fall, The Two Vietnams (1963): 50,000 executed in connection with land reform
Gilbert: 100,000 peasants executed
Harff & Gurr: 15,000 Catholic landlords, rich and middle peasants killed in North Vietnam, 1953-54
Guenter Lewy, America in Vietnam (1978): 50,000 executed, 1955-56, under land reform law of 1953
Rummel:
415,000 democides in NVN, 1945-56
Antinationalist Terror: 15,000
Land Reform: 250,000 (that's when the Communists take your land and shoot you if you object)
Political Struggles: 100,000
Uprisings: 13,000
Prison/Labor Dead: 24,000
Other: 13,000

Then in 1975 the Communists took over South Vietnam and this is what happened.
Vietnam, post-war Communist regime (1975 et seq.): 430, 000
Jacqueline Desbarats and Karl Jackson ("Vietnam 1975-1982: The Cruel Peace", in The Washington Quarterly, Fall 1985) estimated that there had been around 65,000 executions. This number is repeated in the Sept. 1985 Dept. of State Bulletin article on Vietnam.
Orange County Register (29 April 2001): 1 million sent to camps and 165,000 died.
Northwest Asian Weekly (5 July 1996): 150,000-175,000 camp prisoners unaccounted for.
Estimates for the number of Boat People who died:
Elizabeth Becker (When the War Was Over, 1986) cites the UN High Commissioner on Refugees: 250,000 boat people died at sea; 929,600 reached asylum
The 20 July 1986 San Diego Union-Tribune cites the UN Refugee Commission: 200,000 to 250,000 boat people had died at sea since 1975.
The 3 Aug. 1979 Washington Post cites the Australian immigration minister's estimate that 200,000 refugees had died at sea since 1975.
Also: "Some estimates have said that around half of those who set out do not survive."
The 1991 Information Please Almanac cites unspecified "US Officials" that 100,000 boat people died fleeing Vietnam.
Hanson, Victor Davis, Carnage and culture (2001): 50,000-100,000
Encarta estimates that 0.5M fled, and 10-15% died, for a death toll of 50-75,000.
Nayan Chanda, Brother Enemy (1986): ¼M Chinese refugees in two years, 30,000 to 40,000 of whom died at sea. (These numbers also repeated by Marilyn Young, The Vietnam Wars: 1945-1990 (1991))
Rummel
Vietnamese democide: 1,040,000 (1975-87)
Executions: 100,000
Camp Deaths: 95,000
Forced Labor: 48,000
Democides in Cambodia: 460,000
Democides in Laos: 87,000
Boat People: 500,000 deaths (50% not blamed on the Vietnamese govt.)
ANALYSIS: I'd say the most likely total would be 430,000. That's 65,000 executions + 165,000 camp deaths + 200,000 boat people. It's unlikely that VN alone caused 460+87T democides in Cambodia + Laos since estimates of the total deaths in these conflicts only run to a half million or so.

So Diem was far from perfect, but Ho Chi Mhin and his guys turned out to be a whole lot worse...

Answer 6

Corrupt and greedy.