When will people realize the textbook definition of feminism doesn't describe MODERN feminism?

Question

People keep bringing up the "definition" of feminism like that supposedly excuses people like the man-hating Andrea Dworkin & the FACT that she was very welcomed into mainstream feminism. (that FACT alone disproves the definition.)

Many other people that call themselves feminists have said some very nasty things about men.

People that call themselves feminists perpetuate false DV stats & lobby to redefine "abuse" and "rape" in our legislature so more activities fall into that classification.

The nature of "the patriarchy" (one of feminism's staple ideas) is a sexist view of supposed male control whereby ALL MEN are guilty & can be discriminated against... and legislated against.

Feminists are responsible for these things. "Oh, but not all feminists are like that."

How are we supposed to know? I won't forget all of the activities of mainstream feminism (you know... the ones that the supposed moderates do not even challenge) ...& pretend "feminists" are fighting for "equality"

EDIT:

(trinity)
Radicals aren't denounced by the supposed moderates. If you expect me to believe that feminists disagree with Dworkin, why this?:

http://www.now.org/history/dworkin.html

Look at how NOW defines themselves:

"NOW is the largest, most comprehensive feminist advocacy group in the United States. Our purpose is to take action to bring women into full participation in society — sharing equal rights, responsibilities and opportunities with men, while living free from discrimination."

Are you starting to understand?

EDIT:

(hillbilly)

It's pretty clear that you have no idea what a radical feminist is. The fact that you have male friends is a testament to that. Radically seeking equality isn't what radical feminism is about.

Google the term "radical feminist"

Answer 1

This double standard is certainly a curious one. I realised the 'dictionary definition' did not fit when the realities I had seen too many times repeated the same message - "feminists say xyz, but act abc".

Answer 2

Yes, indeedy. When challenged, most feminists say something like "but not all feminists are like that" or something equally fatuous. Trying to get any consistent sense out of them is just as hopeless as trying to grab a slithering eel.

Many dictionaries define feminism as sweetness and light and reasonableness. The feminism organization (NOW) defines itself similarly. And feminists have sweet gently-perfumed farts, no doubt.

Clearly we cannot believe everything we read in books or mission statements!

POSTSCRIPT
You're skating on thin ice, hopscotch. They've just given my a violation notice for posting a similar question. You know how thinskinned they are.

Answer 3

Andrea Dworkin doesn't represent me as a feminist any more than a woman hating male represents you! People like Dworkin are not only one thing, a man hater for example. Like any other person, she is the sum of her parts. You cannot simply cull out one aspect and have it define her. Dworkin probably has some things she can contribute to mainstream feminism. Why? Because she is listened to and has the ear of the media. It in no way disproves the definition of mainstream feminism any more than a person like Al Sharpton disproves the fight for equality for mainstream Afro-Americans, Hopscotch. Many people have said many nasty things on both sides of all the issues and about the sexes but that doesn't diminish the point!

This, like many other topics and causes has gotten way out of control over the years. No, all feminists are not like that and I'm not like that but I'll tell you what Hop...I remember the days all too well when women were laughed off the stage for wanting equal pay and equal rights! The things men called women were simply atrocious and dirty! The patriarchy was the mainstream in the begining of the movement! What do you think we fought for? A man's obligation to babysit his children on a Tuesday night?

I look to discriminate against no one and I don't look to make things bigger than they are or inflate them for my purposes. People who do that make me sick. The thing is Hop, that when you see a woman going against men and calling them all manner of nastiness...she's no feminist! She has nothing to do with feminism although she'll be more than glad to hang her hat on that rack! You have to learn to distinguish the fake from the real as we all do in many heated debates and causes.

If any man feels he is being discriminated against he should lobby and fight with all he has to change it. I, for one, would gladly stand by your side for I know what you face in doing so. Redefining abuse and rape are not bad things Hopscotch. People must be responsible for what they do and the first step is to understand what it entails...even if you think it's going to much too fine a point. I feel your anger right now and I don't think it's out of place. I too question the good of a presence such as Andrea Dworkin and wonder if, in the end, what she has to bring to the table isn't more of a hindrance than help.

Answer 4

Why should people like Andrea represent mainstream feminism though?

That's radical feminism, not mainstream feminism.

That's like saying terrorists represent mainstream Islam, when it's really just radicalism.

The way how you feel about those women is the same way how most of us feel on here. Look, a laid-back everyday feminist isn't going to advertise herself (or himself) constantly. Maybe you did meet a lot of cool feminists and you just didn't know they were feminists. It's just the radical ones that advertise themselves and cause havoc.

Answer 5

I am a card carrying member of the radical feminist movement...I radically seek change to the status of women by pursuing equality in society...I am not a biggot...nor am I a man hater...I like guys...most my friends are guys...yet they also have no questions as to where I stand on certain issues.

Answer 6

Actually Dworkin was reviled by more people in the feminist movement than she was liked by, and she is dead now anyway.

Yes people who call themselves feminists have said nasty things. People who call themselves stamp collectors have also said nasty things. Does that tell you anything about their stamp collecting hobbies? No. It's just a logical fallacy.

Feminism means what the word says it means. End of story.

Do some feminists say things inconsistent with the definition? Sure! Just like stamp collectors say things inconsistent with collecting stamps.

Answer 7

The textbook definition does describe feminism - modern et al - except in YOUR mind - you know - that dark lonely place where you alone think you're smarter than the man who wrote the book?

Answer 8

Trinity is right. You pay so much attention to the fringe that you can't even see the moderates, who have always represented movements as they're meant to be represented.