I have a question for the liberals...?

Question

Abortion. Welfare. Gun control. Affirmative Action. Why do all of your (failed) "solutions" focus on the EFFECT rather than the CAUSE?

In the business world, this type of reactionary policy is known as "certain failure".

Oh, it would be great to hear from liberals who can reply without using terms like "neocon", re-pud-licans", "Gay Old Party", or any other childish term that is being heard on the playground at recess THIS week. Furthermore, refraining from making any reference to President Bush will significantly increase your chances of being perceived as credible. Lastly, any comments that attempt to divert attention away from the subject by digressing into other tangents will automatically expose the poster as the uneducated cretin that he/she is.

Got that?

Gun control-- there are 2 types of gun owners in this country: law abiding and non-law abiding. Disarming only the law abiding citizens will do.... what?
Education-- My taxes go up and up and up for education and where does the money go? To administrative costs. Administration levels in public schools have swelled to the point that teachers are the lowest percentage in numbers on the payroll. Paper shufflers account for the vast majority sucking on the public's teat. How in the world is THAT helping my child get an education?

Affirmative Action-- When your mother needs brain surgery, are you going to send her to "Affirmative Action General Hospital" where "doctors are hired for their skin color rather than their academic ability? Right. I see you liberals doing THAT!

I seem to remember the Clintons sending Chelsea to the public schools they love so much... wait, am I wrong on that?

Pisano-- Nice try you say? Play again? Pal, the opening shots haven't even been fired yet. Thanks for playing though. Now get in line for your consolation prizes: free condoms, welfare check, and hey, lucky you... here's a certificate to let a homeless person live in your backyard indefinately!

Justagrandma- MY racist comment? Is not Affirmative Action racist by design?

Abortion-- Hey libs, now that YOU safely made out of the womb, you are all PRO-CHOICE...?!?!

Abortion-- Hey libs, now that YOU safely made out of the womb, you are all PRO-CHOICE...?!?!

Endangered species-- A road project (tollway) in the south suburbs of Chicago has been stalled for ten years because an enviornmentalist found that the construction would disrupt the natural habitat of an earthworm. That's right, an earthworm. Delay of the project has caused thousands of daily commuters to sit in bumper-to-bumber traffic for HOURS beyond the necessary travel time because of this. I thought you people cared about all of the exhaust being belched into the enviornment... what is it... Global Warming? It's a good thing Al Gore is there to take my money to buy carbon credits for my excessive use of fossil fuels. WHEW!

Welfare--- Clinton vetoed 2 welfare reform bills until in 1996 he was presented with a 3rd (very much similar to the 1st 2). He signed this bill only on the advice of strategist Dick Morris stressing that if he were to veto it as well, it would cost him the election even though his own cabinet urged him to veto this bill as well. Compassionate liberal? Stop. You're killing me.

RKO-- Where do you get off calling me a "rich conservative white person"? I thought it was wrong for anyone, much less a liberal such as yourself, to stereotype... Yep, I'm rich. Filthy. And white too. Feel better? Suprise!!! You're not even close, you hippocrite.

Peace Love and Harmony-- I admire you for what you believe in. I really do. I have good friends that are liberal and we are able to keep our friendship despite our differences of opinion. We are able to discuss politics in the backyard over a weber kettle smoking ribs. We stop when we know we've hit a nerve that could potentially damage a relationship. Then we go on to something else.
I only posed this question with hopes of perhaps learning how others view the "state of the ship" that we all are a part of. I mean no harm, and I respect others as long as they respect me, be it through word or intent. I hold fast to my beliefs, yet I applaud anyone who can help me to see the world as they see it, especially if it defies what I may have believed in yesterday. I felt it necessary to lay out the ground rules early because, well, we all know how sloppy these forums can get. Thanks to all who responded!

Tehabwa-- I hear you. I am perplexed as to why we have to continually beat ourselves on the head over and over and over again, dealing with the SAME PEOPLE over and over and over again..... It's getting way, way too costly. Isn't it time EVERYBODY realized that you CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK? I wish the "free ride" was over because I'm fed up.

Answer 1

Great question. They will attack, though. Good luck.

Michael P forgot that the economic boom of the 90's was driven by the Dot.com's. He also forgot that it turned out to be a hoax. Clinton gets no credit or blame for that, but Bush gets blamed for everything.

One of the most articulate men I know is black, and he was raised in the ghetto. He gives all the credit to his mother, who had a very limited education. She expected the children to do everything well, and expect nothing from anyone. He is now a teacher, and his take on poverty is the expectation that government has the solution. It does not. He now works to instill these values in the children he teaches. They can do whatever they want in life. Had he listened to those who blame everything on government he might still be living in the ghetto. The liberal policies of welfare and affirmative action are exactly what he talks about. Government dependence is a dead end.

I can see they will never believe it. The government spends all this money on education, and they never question where it goes. Government agencies are full of bureaucracy and fat cat administrators. Our public schools are loaded with computers and labs and the children cannot put together a sentence or multiply. It starts with family, and they will never get that. They keep pushing the rhetoric, and keep pushing legislation that breaks up the family.

Answer 2

How can I answer you if discussion and comparison of both sides is unavailable?
Especially since you have already declare things 'certain failure' and I don't see it that way.
I like choice, that suits me fine.
I don't mind helping the needy, and I rather make sure children get help even if they didn't choose good parents. Affirmative action can be rescinded when its no longer in danger of going back to the good ole boys network when the programs are over.
Gun control is a lost cause, every nut in the USA is proud to own an arsenal. But that is a Republican byword due to the NRA. You can't focus on cause either, Republicans dislike teaching or disseminating birth control and the kids just won't adhere to purity as a social construct. How do you stop human nature if its a cause? So you have to make allowance for the effects. Practicality isn't heard of much anymore its always an emotional, moral, or religious issue.
All things government would be better off not having to legislate about, but that leads to the restrictions of dealing with the effects and that's why you have laws that curb the real needs of human frailty.

This is going to be hard, but your school taxes are up because No Child Left Behind, was an unfunded mandate.
But, oddly enough, it needed money to be implemented.
And its a heavy paper mandate, so it needed people who, being devout capitalists, want to get paid for handleing all that new paperwork.
As for your racist comment on the affirmative action hospital, I can merely point out that your mother would be lucky to get into any hospital without losing her home to pay for it.

Answer 3

We no what causes abortion and that is poverty .Poverty is the result of profit taking by the rich while paying the workers the lowest wage possible limiting their ability to provide for themselves let alone raise a child .
This increases the profits for investors who made money off the work of others in the first place .
In order to make a billion dollars it has to come from others hard work . Think about it for a minute . Even a Gold miner could only dig out a few million dollars worth in a lifetime without help . Thats if he strikes a rich vain of it . So hard work digging gold will not make one super rich by themselves . No one who has that much money deserves it . It means they have cheated hundreds of workers out of the proper pay they should have gotten .

The workers at Hoover dam where paid dam little and today that effort Takes in billions and pays millions in dividends .

Gun control is needed because people are shooting each other in the streets over drugs which should be legal and committing crimes to pay for drugs which would cost only a few dollars a pound if legal .

Affirmative action is needed to keep the peace . Constant reinforcement in the media and on the news of minorities who have become successful is used to teach the poor kids in the projects if they study hard get an education they too can be like Condi or Oprah or Cosby . Never mind those folks are one in a million examples and the 99.99% of blacks will work as maids ,concrete and brick workers and demolition cleanup with the college grads going to work for the government . They become teachers ,Police and Administrators of government welfare programs .

I did not mention the people you warned about or call anyone any names .

I believe I have put a face on the issues you mentioned . I firmly feel that under the right circumstances abortion could be ended .

Simply pay a fee for the child of $25,000.00 then at 18 they must serve 4 years in the military for free . Or go to prison for 20 . This would appeal to uneducated poor women and provide them an income .

The rich will do as they please and have abortions just to prevent stretch marks and the problem of what to do about clothing when the weight piles on .
Non of their friends would like it if they continued to drink and party while pregnant and after the child is born a Judge would simply take it away from them if they partied and drank . Look at Britney . Rich , can afford child care and still lost the kids .

SO no stopping the rich because they always do as they please .

Answer 4

My quick answer would be that those policies and government is not a business nor should to be treated as one when we are looking after the people.

If we corporatize or turn our government into a business, we then would not longer have a Republic--we would be a Fascist country, and I for one would not want to live under that flag.

I would agree that there is are no real good answers for our current and past problems, that is why this country is called the great experiment, where we do have opposing sides to come up with a solutions for we the people. We may not like what's going on here in the US, but this is still one of the best countries to live in.

Answer 5

And Cons solution for abortion, welfare and gun control is ideal? I'll give you that affirmative action is stupid. But republican's idea to invade Iraq and stay there is just plain asinine.

Republicans blow up abortion clinics, tell all the people who get abortions (mostly the lower class) to keep poppin' out those babies or to abstain from sex, and when the underprivilidged needs financial help after following your advice, you turn your back on them, saying welfare sucks.

Your logic screams, "love the fetus, hate the child and mother"

Gun control? Since when has gun control been a law? Perhaps if we DID have some more control some of the violent criminals wouldn't be killing our families. Democrats say if you are a law abiding citizen with no mental issues, own all the guns you want, but please keep them out of the reach of children. What's wrong with that?

Republicans think everyone should have guns no matter what, because the boogey man is going to come overthrow the government.

My third gripe is that you point out the names that liberals have called you calling it childish, and then you go on to call the same people uneducated cretins.


I think you need to reevaluate your "question"

Answer 6

Uh, I never use any of the terms you list. (Though on this site, I see 'LIEberals' all the time; I've never seen 're-pudlicans' or 'Gay Old Party'.)

I am all for policies that would prevent unwanted pregnancy; it's the so-called 'anti-abortion' people who prevant them from being implemented.

I would be all for preventing poverty, but the right won't allow it.

Ditto all the causes of the rampant violence in our country, though easy availability of rapid-fire weaponry IS one of the causes.

I've always opposed the racism and sexism that made affirmative action necessary; again, it's the right that refuses to deal with the problems.

There, haven't called any names, mentioned Bush, and stuck to topic.

Get it?

P.S. I doubt children use silly political names on the playground; nor do they use the phrase 'uneducated cretin' so I guess that squeeks by.

Answer 7

I have a question for conservatives:
Corporate welfare, war-mongering, white supremacy, "all for one...ME"......why do all your "solutions" benefit YOU instead of society as a whole??
In the business world, this type of policy is known as "winning at all costs".
The conservative-biased media tries to "Hitlerize" America into believing that it's a country reserved only for wealthy, white, conservative citizens with little regard for those of other religious beliefs, political dogmas, skin colors or sexual persuasions (other than a handful of token agnostics, independents, blacks and homosexual perverts). Your personal ideas of what's best for America may - or may not - be founded in reality. We are a country that welcomes the poor, the downtrodden, the disadvantaged and the underprivileged. Just because you're among the top 10% of the nation that earns plenty of money and enjoys an above-aberage lifestyle doesn't make your beliefs right. There is room for everyone in this great nation, eveno those who are sick, elderly, poor, under-educated, disadvantaged, homeless, unemployed, underprivleged, or hungry. And YOU, as a conservative white rich person, should be delighted to help those who are less fortunate than you rather than serving your own gluttony. -RKO- 11/01/07

Answer 8

Abortion- Democrats support more sex education.
Gun Control- I believe they are addressing the CAUSE of murders and violence with this one.
Welfare- Improving education and making college more affordable. Also, opposing "No Child Left Behind" would increase education.
Affirmative Action- Again, you may or may not have noticed that liberal movements are always trying to spread awareness, education, and tolerance in diversity.

Nice try. Feel free to play again sometime. Democrats often favor trying to educate people on issues such as these. This is in stark contrast to Republican stances:

Sex=bad. Practice abstinence.
Welfare=bad. People should fend for themselves without assistance from anyone else. Because helping others are wrong.
Gun Control- No one's gunna git ma guns!!! Yeeeehaw!!
Affirmative Action- I'm Republican and I hate minorities.

Edit: Whoah, easy there killer. Despite your eloquent email I remained unconvinced. If you can't connect the dots on what I said then that is your problem as it should be obvious that there is a connection between education and welfare. As for this question I think it has officially turned in to a rant. And since we are talking about cause and effect I think perhaps you should hold on to those free rubbers you offered me. They may cause you to chill out if used properly. Good luck!

Thumper-With the state of the housing market being what it is, how much did you have to put down on your glass house?

Answer 9

1st your sort of childish and rude - hardly credible yourself.

2nd Affirmative Action "failed" ?? If you compare the number of women, blacks, etc. who are in college now compared to before affirmative action I think you will see your wrong about that.

3rd Gun Control "failed" ? that you MUST explain because keeping machine guns off the streets is one of the best gun control laws ever !

4th Abortion - Still Legal and soon it Might be up to the individual states (how is that a failure ?)

5th Welfare - the last President to give us welfare reforms was Clinton, if it was important to conservatives they would have done something when they had control of Congress and the White House !

Got That ? :)

Answer 10

So, in focusing on cause, we should do what? I think that's why people try to fix the effects of social ills. It's the most pragmatic way to go about things. If you want to fix root causes well, I've no idea how to go about doing that. You can take away free will but, then you don't have much of a society. Who's to say you're views are correct anyway?

Answer 11

I think you make some excellent points, but unfortunately there is a confrontational tone which will make many angry and make dialogue more difficult.

I agree with you that the Howard Dean Democratic Party has veered far to the left and that centrist, reasonable Dems need to pull it back to the center. Democrats aren't bad people, but there is a radical wing which has seized control and alienated many moderates. Same goes for the conservative Christians on the right who discourage moderate Republicans if they aren't zealots. Heed this warning at election time; vote for centrism and moderation and compromise which can lead to effective lasting change.

Bush's ratings are higher than Congress. That's bad for the Dems. Pelosi and Reid are not doing it right. Blame Bush for obstruction through vetoes if you want, but if the Dems were interested in dialogue and change instead of making Bush look bad, they might have actually passed some useful, moderate, bi-partisan legislation.

Bush has captained a robust economy, even with fuel and subprime issues. He has had no attacks on US interests outside the theater of war since 9/11. I'm still angry at Clinton for letting the Cole, Embassies, WTC bombing 1, go unpunished. The only foreign policy military intervention came when he bombes suspected terrorist training camps in Iraq the week Lewinsky broke. I think that was wrong and a misallocation of resources. The action may be justified, but the timing destroyed its legitimacy. Same with the inquest into his impeachment. $50 million to publicly embarrass him. Another governmental waste.

I am a Republican with some left-leaning social views and hard right foreign policy and fiscal leanings. I think the next president needs to be a Republican, bc the current Dem candidates are promising to pull out of Iraq immediately which is disatrous and nigh impossible at this point. I'm avoiding hard-line Republicans.

I guess I'm hoping for McCain. He's right on the tough slough in Iraq ahead. He's right on not torturing. He's right on any issue concerning foreign policy or globaleconomics bc he's been involved there for decades. As far as personal integrity and sacrifice, no one can hold a candle to him. He works across the aisle too. He's got my vote, not bc he's Rep or Dem, but bc he's reasonable and dedicated and honorable.

We have to stop looking at party and look at individuals who can work together. Most of the candidates don't feel that way. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this way. I hope not.