Why should we pay for health care?

Question

There are the arguments against paying for the lazy and drug addicted, but I will take it one step further. Why should we pay for those who could sacrifice other things. The "poor" in America have cell phones, nice cars, cable television, etc. The poor in other countries have none of these, and occasionally get food with their meals.

When I moved out of my parents home, I paid my own way through college with grants, scholarships, and loans, and a full-time job. I only attained an associates degree at the time, then I worked for another 3 years at an average of 80 hours a week. Then I started a business. During these 10 years, I did not have a car, phone, cable TV, nothing. I lived 10 years like few would so I can live the rest of my life like few can. Why should I pay for those not willing to make the same sacrifices?

Ben...Okay, I will say it slower for you. If the "poor" would give up their cell phones, cable TV, ride a bicycle or take a bus to work where possible, they could afford their own insurance. It is called sacrifice. I did it and managed to put aside 8-15% of my income off a near minimum wage job and invest it. As long as the "poor" have these kind of comforts, I see no reason why my tax dollars should be paying for their medical insurance

Lum...I got nothing except for emotional support from my family. I lived off Top Ramen noodles, and read for entertainment. It is pure crap that others do not have the same opportunity. There are jobs all over this country. People can get two of them and start saving and investing. It is NOT that difficult.

Daisy...I am not saying that we should not assist those who CAN'T. I am saying that we should not assist those who WON'T. As I said, as long as they have comforts like cable and cell phones, I do not see why others should be paying their way.

Jamus...I was kind of waiting for your answer. I donated over $200,000 to charity last year. Not one person who knows me would EVER call me greedy. I just believe that it should be ME who decides who my money helps and how. I do not believe in hand outs, but I give hand ups regularly. I have created 3 non-profit charities which I poured a large amount of money into, and they became self-sufficient, and I take NOTHING but pleasure from...Greed is NOT the issue.

Jamus...also, I think it is irresponsible to start a family when you are earning 7.00/hr, but even with that...ONLY 60 HOURS? I worked 60-70 while I was in college full time. Sorry, no sympathy there. And as for the war...there is no connection. Whether we go to war or not, is irrelevant to this issue. If we were not in war, I would still say that people need to sacrifice more and rely on others less.

Helen...you make good points, and I support the SCHIP program, but not the expansion to it. As for being "lucky" I do not believe in luck. My parents were poor, themselves, and I had no health insurance for much of my childhood. My parents could not afford books, so I spent a lot of time at the library. It is absolute non-sense that (barring physical inability in which I support governement assistance) some do not have the opportunity. ANYONE AND EVERYONE could do exactly what I have done.

Michelle,

If I pay a million in taxes, but it is a lower percentage than someone who pays $5,000 in taxes, does that mean I am paying less? When you throw in the fact that I have a $2 million dollar + payroll expense annually for my employees and cause increased federal revenue due to their income taxes, etc. Would you rather see me taxed higher and be able to employ less workers? You see the tax structure in this country, being what it is, is what allows for the economic growth, and job growth that we see. What would you call a fair tax? One that taxes the he!! out of the rich, but costs jobs? You cannot have it both ways.

Graham...I am sorry to hear that, but you are like the dot.com millionaires who rode the wave to to the top, and all the way back down. Diversity is important. If my business shut down tomorrow, I would survive independently. Nobody has not heard the phrase "You don't put all of your eggs in one basket." That is what caused your problems.

Moody Red...I applaud you. Congratulations on not only your success, but on understanding what it means to sacrifice to get what you want in life.

G Y....I made it a point to take my children and grandchildren to some of the poorest areas in the country to show them what poverty is so that they would appreciate what they have...then I took them to see REAL poverty because in this country, we do not have it. Go to the inner cities, and watch the kids talking on their cell phones and listening to thier IPODS. They DO have these things, and you are right...they sacrifice health care to get them. You prove my point. Why should I pay for their poor choices?

Ted...tell that to my associate. He came to me looking for a job. He certainly would be who you are describing. He took some amazing initiative and showed a desire to not only work harder than any of my other employees, but wanted to be mentored. After working for me for 6 years, he came to me with a business idea that he wanted to pursue, so I lost the best employee I ever had. He came to me 2 years later and asked if I would like to invest in his expansion. He wanted to offer me the opportunity rather than a bank. I am now the minority partner in his business, and he is doing fantastic.
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO (Barring physical inability or mental illness) CAN ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING THEY WANT IN LIFE.
I recall hearing an African immigrant speaking, and one thing he said is that if you are in America, and not successful...shame on you!

Ted...and as for the humility. You mistake pride for my desire that if one person I share my story with understands that their own potential is unlimited, then sharing it with as many as possible is worth it to me. I mentor quite a few people, and many have gone on to improve their financial situation greatly. I have also started a side business as a motivational speaker, and have had some great success stories come out of that. I want the world to know that if they stop listening to the naysayers...like you...and believe in themselves, they can do ANYTHING.

Answer 1

I completely concur with you... but I feel for you because you're beating your head against a wall trying to get the diehard Liberals, who believe in entitlement programs and federal government intervention in our lives... to listen.
I'd add that I'm a single Dad and I don't want anyone paying for my healthcare or my son's. I work... I pay for my own benefits (and of course the employer provides some) and I don't get child support, I pay for all my son's needs.
Sure, I have a cellphone, but it's a cheap one and I'm on a cheap plan, so I can afford it.
I just bought my son a Wii... but he was made to understand that this was a major purchase and that there would be some sacrifices to be made. He's not going to grow up thinking that the government will just make up for the rash decisions you make.
The game system was only bought once it was clear that it was economically feasible to do so and that appropriate cuts in spending were made.
Not food or healthcare... but other luxuries. I don't own an iPod or a PDA... I don't drive a fancy car with a big payment... it's all about prioritizing.

I support helping those who, for some VALID reason, cannot provide for themselves and/or their children... but SHAME on those parents out there who depend on the government to give their kid healthcare because THEY went and spent their money on an iPhone! The SCHIP expansion bill was a farce and it's sick how they politicized it. Real Americans are proud, independent folks... we want to earn what we get.

I'd add more, but you've gotten so many great responses to this question. I applaud you your success... I applaud you your clear sight of the issue here and I wish you luck getting the leftist moveon-org radical liberals to even hear what you're saying, much less listen!

Answer 2

We should pay for Health-Care to get the best we can. We decide who will get the money for care provided, so that makes us the BOSS, and the doctor the hired help. They will have to be careful to do the right diagnosis, and treatment, or they won't get their money. If the government pays their fees, it will make no difference if they treat their patients right or not, they'll get paid anyway, the same rate as every other doctor. That's a fact, and just like in USSR, the desire to be the best you can be because you can't succeed beyond a certain limit, will then be lost. If you cannot be praised and earn more money for a better life than what you have, or are given, then theres no point in trying to be better. The Russians can tell you that, and so can all socialized medical doctors, and nurses.

Answer 3

The answer is very simple. Each person or family should pay for their own health care. Right now most people get their health care from either the government or private party insurers. This causes a false market to be created with no incentive for cost savings, avoidance of unnecessary care or competition. If we all payed for it ourselves, prices would be lower, care would be more efficient and care would actually improve.

Of course, there is the issue of those who cannot afford care. However, the government is the worst option for providing this care. Nonprofit organizations should be the source of health care for those who cannot afford it. Why is it the most effective drug and alcohol rehab program is privately run, receives no government money and is thousands less per month than other programs? Check out Teen Challenge and you will see that it is possible. Nonprofit clinics should be placed in each poor areas. Nonprofit hospitals should be required to really be nonprofit. We don't need government to do our job for us.

Answer 4

I agree that those who can definitely should! People should strive to reach their potential.
I know a guy who is 24yrs. old and has a 4 yr. old son, the little boy's mom dumped him in a parking lot and ran off. The man has no place to live and bounces house to house but has left his son with me for the past several months (I offered for them both to stay so he could get on his feet but he only left the little boy). He has no home, ( I am raising his son) but you know he manages to have a cell phone and talks on the thing day and night...he spends several hundred dollars a month on his cell phone and renting cars to run around in. 90% of the problem is priorities. I understand when you are disabled, aged, or tragedy strikes and you cannot do it for yourself...but come on, there are a lot of people out there who simply will not make the sacrifice it takes to have a better future.

Answer 5

Nothing is free, someone always pays. The real question is - who should pay and how much should they pay for health care. In a country where the government pays more of the cost, then the burden falls on people depending on how much tax they pay. There is a myth that in Aus and US richer people pay more tax, this is only true amoungst wage and salary earners, not of the very rich. So before a government funded healthcare system can be fair the tax structure needs to be fair. In the mean-time why not have a user pays system. That has an equity of its own.

Answer 6

You're a dynamic person and an achiever, and you have a right to be proud of your hard work and success. But life doesn't work out the same for everyone, and it isn't only about hard work and talent. All of us who have achieved some success have also had a fair amount of luck.

I was born to a family that valued education and encouraged me to work at school and go as far as I could. My parents made sacrifices so their children could have books at home, go to decent schools, visit galleries and museums. Many people in our poor neighbourhood didn't value books, art or learning because they were told that those things aren't for lower-class people. My parents gave me the ability to learn and to relate to any person on any level. I was lucky not to be trapped in the class-and-income rut that claimed so many of my primary schoolmates.

I was also lucky to be born healthy and get good healthcare. Genetics can be very cruel and some people just don't earn enough to get treatment for their families, even if they do go without. And even if the parents of a sick child are lazy, feckless slobs, the child's still sick, and the child didn't ask for or deserve those parents any more than I asked for, or deserved, my wonderful Mum and Dad.

I look around the world and see so many countries where people don't have freedom, education or even enough to eat. You're right that most of us in the richer nations have far more chances and choices than the world's poorest, but surely that means we should also have more breadth of experience, wisdom, humility and compassion for others?

I think a civilised society should look after its sick children and old people. There's a debate to be had about how we treat adults who won't contribute to society, but the weakest people in the community shouldn't suffer because of it.

Answer 7

You probably think you are well off now because of all your hard work and to some extent you are. But I used to think like you. I worked as an exporter for 20 years 12 to 15 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week. I had 2 superb houses, one for living in, one for working in, dream cars and world travel.

Nothing could go wrong, I spread my risk by selling to several countries in Asia. If one had problems another could replace it.

Then in 1997 the whole of Asia experienced a currency crash which reduced all Asian currencies to half of their former value which effectively doubled my prices and eliminated my entire livelyhood in a few months.

No matter how I tried, switching to more difficult markets like Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka and Ghana I still managed to produce less than half the income from even more work than I had done before, cutting profit margins to the bare minimum.

Then I knew, I had proved in 20 years that I was good at that business but that counted for nothing unless I was lucky too.

So don't feel too confident. Totally unexpected things can happen. You may, in future, need that socially funded free healthcare through no fault of your own.

And when you need healthcare, sometimes it is urgent, right now, life or death and without any time for people to decide whether the life to be saved has been financially productive enough to deserve it.

Answer 8

I hear you man, I went through hard times too. Not as bad as what you went through, but I failed out of college and lost my job for a year. No money to pay the bills, threats to get evicted, needed to see a dentist for tooth pains and just couldn't go, couldn't afford it. A year of hard work later, and I got a good job and took care of it myself. How would I feel about myself if someone else's well to do money was put towards my cause, if it was just handed to me, not earned? Probably good, but not this good.

The argument they never bring up is what happens to the middle class family that can't afford, say college tuition for their kids on account of universal health care charges and taxes being so high. Programs like that are going to put the squeeze on everybody, and punish the people who are the most successful. The health care and insurance industry do need reform, and oversight, but not via universal health care.

Answer 9

Well, to answer your primary question, somebody has to pay for it, so either through taxes or employer contributions or employee contributions, it will be paid.
As far as your comments and reasoning, congratulations on being successful and I agree that it isn't fair, but welcome to life. Believe it or not, everybody IS NOT born equal. The poor do not have all the luxury you say they have, without them making other sacrifices. In the USA the poor will sacrifice health care to have that nice car or cell phone. Because they will get treated for free anyway. (See 13 million illegal aliens)
Its ruining the US and that's why it's such a hot topic. The US is not the highest paid anymore-I think they rank about eighth in the world for average pay, excluding the rich. The US middle class is shrinking fast, and that's because of globalization. Just be glad for what you have, tomorrow it might be gone.

Answer 10

I agree with you - it's annoying that we busted our butts to get to where we are only to pay for others that didn't. The way it was explained to me - and I can understand this - is that there are many people that didn't have the opportunity. We were lucky to have the support (both in resources and emotional) from our parents as well as had access to education. Sadly, not everyone does so it puts them quite a few steps behind. When you're already behind, it's easy to snowball out of their control. There are the proactive people that are able to climb out and succeed, but it's rare and a huge struggle. And when they do climb out, they become an idiot like us paying for others' health care.

Updated: I think alot of people are offering suggestions and ideas and you are blatantly rejecting them. Rather than feeling hatred towards the system and feeling self righteous for making it out despite your "setbacks", try to understand it and learn to live with it. I know it's frustrating - I agree with that. But no use dwelling on it and letting the negative energy consume you.