Socrates and the noble lie - help!!!?

Question

Socrates defends at several points in the dialogue the so-called “noble lie”. What is this and what is the defence for it? Are the arguments in favour of the noble lie good ones? Why or why not? What difference does it make, if any?

Answer 1

Don't get bogged down by detailed descriptions. Here is the basic "big picture"

Everyone who lives under a civilized form of government has accepted on some level that their particular governmental structure (with all its rules, etc.) is (3)ACCEPTABLE...we may even think ours is the (2)BEST...even still, we may even think ours is the (1)CORRECT one.

Our governments instill at least (3), and probably achieve (2)...but even sometimes achieve (1) above in the minds of the populace.

In this sense, the noble lie is being perpetrated upon man in society.

Answer 2

This concept comes up in Plato's "Republic". And to see the differences it's important to know a little bit about Plato's values.

To Plato, all things (and even parts of things) have their own intrinsic purpose. A brain is for thinking, muscles are for moving things around, and guts are to consume and provide energy. When things are allowed to pursue their purpose, good things result. When purposes get confused, you can only have sickness, disorder, and death. And to him, this is as true for a nation as it is for a person.

Further, though all these processes and purposes are important, it is reason which is the MOST important. With judicious application of reason, all the other things can (presumably) be brought into working order. Reason is also closest to the 'world of ideas' which is essentially the divine.

A true lie, then, is like an illness. It's like pouring sand into gears or an ill man spitting in the face of a healthy one - a usually malicious attempt to interfere with someone else's purposes. And since you are interfering with another person's reason to make it work worse, a true lie is arguably the worst monstrousity of the lot.

And perhaps when Plato reached that stage in the argument he looked at that last sentence and asked a curious question. Or perhaps he thought about the difference between surgery and butchery. But here's were we get to the concept of a noble lie.

Suppose you said something to someone that wasn't true, but rather than hurting them it helped them? For example, a doctor might lie and say that a shot won't hurt - even though it will - so you will sit still and it will hurt less (and you'll get a handy vaccination besides). Or a parent may give something less than the completely truth to a child because they are not ready for the complete truth. These might all be good things.

Thus the idea of a 'noble lie' is coined. I think the way he phrases it specifically is that it is 'a lie in words only' or some such. It's not true, but it doesn't have the SPIRIT of a lie.

Plato ends up leaning very heavily on the idea later in 'the Republic' because a lot of the grease that makes his utopia run is based on outright lies that are told to the populace to keep them in order. But again, because it is for their own good, he argues it is a noble lie instead of a monstrousity.

Whether we agree with that assessment is up to each of us, I suppose. Hope that helps!

Answer 3

If you were honest in all your dealings in life. You would potentially upset a large number of people. I often say that if you are going to be yourself in life, you would be best to learn how to act. We lie everyday.

Answer 4

authntically existing, living for truth and standing by truth in all circumsantces.