Is (some) male fear of independence part of the reason for opposition to feminism?

Question

To my understanding, Feminism is all about the independent woman. Female financial independence, freedom of individual choice, etc.

But there is a side-effect to this ideal, in that male independence (or rather lack of expected female dependence) is expected as if to even things out.

If a woman is successful in her career, and in turn has a successful mate, she no longer needs to "earn her keep" by doing all household chores, and instead expects equal effort in both financial matters and otherwise, as a side effect, the male partner is forced to relinquish his 'command' so to speak of the household in favor of equal governing, and again, equal effort.

Do (some) men who oppose feminism, fear the independence of their partners and the independence expected of them?

(For the record, I am not talking about role-reversal in which the woman becomes the "head of household" and expects her male partner to become dependent on her and 'earn HIS keep', but rather where neither

partner expects co-dependence, in favor of dual-independence.

Also, in dating, are (some) men afraid to be 'measured up' by women based solely on their personalities and appearance instead of their ability to open a door or pay for an expensive meal?

Actually I spoke nothing of dominance, you inferred that, incorrectly, I might add.

rant rant rant. When will you trolls learn that your empty rhetoric is unwelcome in my posts. Keep creating new accounts, I love blocking them.

Answer 1

Some male fear is motivated by precisely that.

Historically (by which I mean pre 1960s) in Europe and America, divorce was much more of a social taboo than in the present day. Sex outside wedlock was frowned upon, and children outside wedlock even more so.

Once a man had got a woman into marriage he could usually expect that is where she would stay.

Further back (but within living memory to a few) when a woman married, control of her financial assets would pass to the husband in totality. Sex was considered a conjugal right (rape within marriage wasn't actually a crime until 40 or so years ago in the US, and similar issues with regard to other forms of domestic violence).

This meant that abusive men effectively had the keys to their wives existence, her rights being of little more value than those of a domesticated animal with respect to his treatment of her.

Small wonder that such men would fear the escape of their captive domestic sexual servants.

While most men do not fall into the category of abusers, the mindset and psyche of todays adult man is coloured by his upbringing which in many cases teaches that it is a mans right to have power over his wife, to whatever end. These men are also threatened by a loss of power.

It is quite stunning reading these boards to see how few posters know that many of the changes to womens status within marriage on DV and marital rape have changed within just the last 40-50 years along with social and legal attitudes towards women in the workplace.

While the law has changed, and better yet many attitudes have changed, it is clear that the mindsets of many men have got some catching up to do.

Of course many of those who fear independence oppose feminism. Feminism has challenged and eroded their given rights to treat women as chattel.

Answer 2

Having been a debutante who happens to be a feminist now I would say yes I think you may be on to something. I've had a lot of guys try to woo and court me via their material means because they either lacked depth and creativity or didn't have the confidence to try and win me without money. I wonder though, how would guys with less than average looks fair without the means of manipulation that you admit you men use? It seems that material wealth may be what is equalizing their chances in the dating pool. Without it would they be able to score upsets against the jock types when competing for an attractive lady's affections?

Answer 3

I don't know. My boyfriend is going to school and I am currently the breadwinner. He seems depressed sometimes and does mention often that he wishes he had a real job, and that he feels he is 'so far behind me'. I love him and do not feel that the situation is unfair...we are a team and we are doing what we must. That being said, I do not believe he is upset over a lack of control, but he has a need to be a caregiver to me...and he cannot fulfill his ingrained idea of what that is (providing $$). Now, I do most of the cooking because I 'm better at it and he does most of the cleaning...just because he is home more than me. I do not think he gets the same fulfillment out of cleaning for me as I do out of cooking for him. And women, I believe, have some caregiving skills inside us...mostly focused on feeding our family and keeping them comfortable and healthy. So, bottom line, I do not think that most men would oppose feminism because of control or fear...but mainly they are uncomfortable with not being the breadwinner in most cases and not comfortable with being a housedad. As a woman, I would not feel comfortable expesting my man to do all the cooking cleaning, etc and it probably works both ways. Some of the yahoo men who are opposing feminism are pretty extreme, I wouldn't get your panties all in a bunch...the mainstream is not as estreme as them.

Answer 4

Yes, I think male fear of independence is part of the reason for male anti-feminism, plus a number of complicated other reasons. But based on the rhetoric of traditional family values types, the loss of control of their family does sound like a frequent complaint, if not the core reason they are deeply upset.

Once women have choices provided by employment and financial independence, they don't "need" men. I think that is even worse to quite a few men than losing control-is feeling like they've lost their place and don't have an important role any longer. Or worse, they feel like they don't have any role that is recognizable to them. They can't see the choices they have, only the loss of power over women and children.

As for women who oppose feminism, I think quite a few women think they have everything they need, since they are middle-class, educated, and haven't dealt with any problems in their lives. They believe the media hyperbole about the evils of feminism, "since they've never experienced discrimination". How convenient for them. Too bad women with little education, who are poor, or ill, who have been battered, or raped, or molested, don't have the same wonderful lives of the women who have never experienced discrimination.

Answer 5

Most likely it's for reasons outside of the household. My guess would be that it's what goes on in the courthouse that sways them most. Or is it most of them? Hmmm, either way I guess.

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When it comes to dating, the last thing I want to be seen as is a big fat wallet just waiting to be drained. It's all about the personality and style. I be sure not to spend of a bunch of money on my dates. There are much better ways to attract/impress a (good) woman.

Answer 6

yes, i believe so - there is some fear to the woman's independence- meaning she can now make demands on her husband and can now leave the marriage. many men fear that loss of control over their family, they don't like that male authority is diminishing (you shouldnt be born with authority, you should earn/deserve it, though, right?), they feel the male privelege slipping away.

both genders, however, have had to deal with changing roles. it's not easy for any of us. but cooperation has got to be better than domination.

and, yes, domestic violence and rape laws only started in the 70s. how barbaric, huh? a culture of silence permitted battering indoors. even more so is to learn that only about half the UN nations have domestic violence laws. enforcement, of course, of those with laws is another problem. those attacking services for battered women are seeking to undermine our rights and return to control and domination by having women 'under their thumb' again.

Answer 7

Naaah! Men always view themselves as independent even if they are too incompetent to cook their own meal, plus most "governing" (i.e. day-to-day decisionmaking) even in patriarchical societies was done by women, not due to power, but to sheer disintrest of the man.

Why do some men "resist" an "independent" woman (in the context of marriage)? Here's why:

1) A woman who has freedom of choice might choose to dump the guy and be with someone else.

2) Male attractiveness is inseparably tied to his achievements and a high-end achieving girl is simply much harder to impress. Who wants that sort of perpetual anxiety in a relationship. Sort of like a woman being with an ultra-good looking guy.

Answer 8

It's not a flawed assumption to say that traditional roles are based on domination. A woman may rule the household but in the end, she still has to submit to her husband and obey him. She may be in control of what goes on in the house but that power is confined to the four walls of the house. She has no power away from the house. Also, many people consider money to be power. The person who earns the money has more power over the one who doesn't. If the woman is a homemaker who doesn't earn an income, she really doesn't have much say in how the money is spent unless the man allows it.

Answer 9

What makes you so sure that its about womens independence?

If not wanting to tolerate misandry which seems to be rife in those under the banner of feminism means I must be against you having a career - then your making it that way not me.

If you want to paint me as a misogynist for that - sure then for you I am.

If you want to say well not all feminists are like that - well you have just tried to over simplify things right here, and not noted that feminism isnt just a dictionary term that means you get to have a career. Its a banner that someone can hold up and say what the hell they like - those that are prone to misandry have added that to its meaning by being outspoken in those ways.

You can hold that personal view if you like - and if I hold mine that feminism has come to mean more than independence, more than the dictionary term - then does that mean I cant believe in the independance aspect? or the equality aspect?
The feminism you describe doesnt sound like the one I have come to know.

If you would say that I should be more tolerant because not all feminists are this way .. well I accept that - I also accept that feminism has been an enabling point for many wrongs - untill things move to a more balanced point of independence for both, equality for both (rather than just women), then I wont directly support or state any support for it - I will for the aspects I agree with.

I would prefer equal on the household.
Ive met a number of women that say they do. So far they dont, they fight and make bitter until they control all and have everything their own way.

I have met many that say they are fair with men ....
Fair like your being - the implication of your question is that if I dont support feminism then I dont support you having a career. Your not leaving any space to be disagreeing whilst still supporting - its your way or the high way - whilst you keep things black and white - you will keep things polarised - while you keep things like that you will keep me and many others against you.

Answer 10

You make the flawed presumption that tradition roles implies domination. Many families have been practicing equal in very role specific societies. My grandfather worked all day and my grandmother tended to the garden,s canning, and the farm. They both performed sex based roles but there was no male or female dominance in the household.