I just want to make sure I understand, Feminists?

Question

Women SHOULDN'T be concerned with what men think because that's male domination and leads to internalizing sexist oppression.

And men SHOULD be concerned with what women think because men should respect women and recognize the validity of their concerns, wants, and needs, otherwise he's a misogynist.

Do I have it right?

Unavailable, I agree with much of what you say: support equal political participation, equal civil liberties, equal educational and employment opportunities, and equal access to health care and housing for men and women.

But I've noticed that when I post that women shouldn't worry about what men think, I get lots of thumbs up but when I say the same about men, I get lots of thumbs down.

And now I've had a question deleted for advocating the same for both.

Un, I heard that!

I've decided just to block those who resort to cheap shots, condescension, and reporting. I never wanted to do that, but it seems the best way to improve the signal to noise ratio.

Cher, I am a non-feminist because I am so disgusted by the fascist underbelly of the movement, but I don't want to knock all feminism because a lot of the basics: political, educational, employment, I totally support.

Talley, actually the SCUM Manifesto, by Valerie Solonas, is disavowed by many feminists and it was but one of many books during the beginnings of the "Second Wave"... Betty Friedan's "Feminine Mystique" was much more popular.

The earliest feminist works are from the late 19th century by Wollstonecraft and by Mill&Mill (a husband and wife)

Answer 1

That doesn't make sense to Gnu or to me.
Throughout history, when people hate and make war, they breed more of the same. And after a few years of "hating" and "warring", we get back together, only to hate and war against some other group.

The war between the sexes makes the least sense of all.
I found this quote, written by a man, John Stuart Mill, from "The Subjection of Women" (1869):
The principle which regulates the existing social relations between the two sexes - the legal subordination of one sex to the other - is wrong in itself, and now one of the chief hindrances to human improvement; and ... it ought to be replaced by a principle of perfect equality, admitting no power or privilege on the one side, nor disability on the other.

Instead of "shake hands and come out fighting," we could try, " hold hands and walk on together." Could we do any worse?
C. :)!!

Answer 2

Ive pretty much noticed the same thing. Thats why counter and counter-balance movements are in progress., my opinion.

If our attitudes dont make it possible to build bridges then we will end up burning them. Despite what we may like to say about ourselves, if its not what we do it wont happen.

Both sides should listen to each other - if not there is no one to throw a rope to on the other island, and no one to help me build a bridge. I cant do it by myself.

Gnu excellent question. The answers I have found to be intriguing. I trust many others have as well.



"a woman shouldn't be concerned with what a man thinks when it comes to her own freedom and rights" Kinz, no offense intended - if some where oppressing me, their opinions would be of great importance - if not would there be any reason to fight it? The other is if men and women dont learn to listen each other and make accommodation for each other in what they consider to be their rights then that can have some pretty serious backlash if some very serious care isnt taken. Your words there seem to be the very echo of what feminism was against in men in some places, just with the role reversed. Rather than considering loud and hard as method of retorting have you perhaps considered talking out with those willing to talk and being loud and hard with those that insist on it?
ofc I may be mistaken. Just some thoughts.

Answer 3

If you want to understand feminists, you have to understand that the term "feminist" has completely lost it's original meaning.

I'm sure you've heard something like: "feminism is about equality."

The National Organization for Women is a feminist organization.

They come out against shared parenting where divorced dads get "equal" time with their kids.

They came out against the "Roe vs Wade for men" where men would get similar reproductive rights to the ones they feverishly protect for women.

They defend the slanted family court system due the abusive nature of ALL men. ...No, not just the abusive types. ALL men.

They reject the notion of stereotyping women & turn around blatantly stereotyping men as abusers.

"Oh, but I'm not that type of feminist."

...Well how are we supposed to know? If a person labels themselves a feminist & we see feminists very actively stomping on the male image & supporting sexist acts like VAWA... please lose the surprise act when people lump you in with the radicals. (not aimed at anyone in particular here)

Women already have equal rights. If you still identify yourself as a feminist, what exactly are you "in it" for?

What is feminism doing TODAY that makes you renew your membership card?

Do feminists do ANYTHING that makes you wish to cut that card in half & toss it?

It's my hope that many of the women that label themselves "feminists" are merely using the old equality definition & aren't active in the hate movement it has become.

So to fully understand feminists, you need to realize that modern feminism isn't the egalitarian movement it once was. I think many women would lose the feminist tag double quick if they knew what their "sisters" were up to.

It's not misogynistic to oppose a movement that stomps on the male image & actively tries to lessen men's rights.

Anti-misandry isn't pro-misogyny.

Answer 4

From the articles I have been reading, I discovered that the feminists pioneers were like what you said. Read the S.C.U.M. Manifesto and you will see. (I'll check the website and give you later. Or you can google).
The only thing I appreciate with feminism is the fact that they fight for the rights of women. And I think that the women who only fight for women's rights better decline from using the term feminist. The roots (which is also the agenda) of feminism itself is not pleasing.

Answer 5

as a feminist, this is what i think:

a woman should not be forced into a tiny shell where she is judged by her looks and breasts. she should get equal pay for equal work, should be treated as an equal in all areas of life. she should wear what makes her feel good, she should learn that her life has value outside of her looks. she shouldn't be called a "whore" because she was raped and "asking for it". same goes for men.

all PEOPLE should respect one another, as long as they're not given a reason to lose respect. so, yes, men should respect women, just as women should respect men. i get pissed when men or women are hateful to the opposite sex just because they don't share the same sex organs. it takes much more for me to acquire hate for a person.

i don't want to be oppressed and i don't want to see anyone else oppressed. i try to live a fair life and i try to treat every person the same.

EDIT: this site is petty, especially this section. way too many trolls and idiots to get actual feedback that counts. you're not a misogynist-all of us sensible people know that. ignore the others.

Answer 6

WOW!!! This is a good question that goes right to the issue of equality. If you look at another question I just answered, you'll see that feminists aren't any better off concerning their self-image than other women. For that reason, they're just as prone to seek the approval of men as the rest of females. Which is also why you find so many women here who call themselves feminists, addictively arguing with the men they refer to as anti-feminist. See this (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071020054713AAyxfM2&r=w)

Then of course, you have the hypocrisy that is also evident by some women here. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071020153026AAFe2RL&r=w#A7J5O3PrWTQF_ELnCwR8)

Listen to the answers of many of the feminists here, and see how many of them can argue with me about this. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmMF98fb80sOxIt88Jbvm9oYxgt.;_ylv=3?qid=20071021205142AAPPcKJ).

Shingoshi Dao

Answer 7

Excellent appreciation of feminism.
However, I am perplexed by the number of women on here who say they are feminists.
In the UK, in my circle, feminism is not an issue.
In fact it is now quite outdated.
In the 70's we were all feminists as society at that point needed a wake up call regarding the equality of equal opportunity.
Today in our society over here we have achieved that opportunity, albeit there exist a few men locked in the 1950's syndrome of their appreciation of women, but they are few and far between.

Answer 8

a woman shouldn't be concerned with what a man thinks when it comes to her own freedom and rights. if he supports her rights and equality, fine. if he doesn't, oh well, i am also not about to argue that a woman should listen to a man if he is trying to put her in her "place" or demean her. i also prefer not to listen to males suggest women shouldn't be able to make choices about their own bodies. similarly, i will not be demanding that men cease getting medical procedures i don't agree with. we all deserve to have our rights respected. do you think civil rights activists gave a rat's *** about the opinions of people trying to oppress them?

guess what. it's simple. i am not concerned with what ANYONE thinks if they are trying to impede my free choice and equal rights. otherwise, i'm open to just about any opinion. i am happy to listen to men and what they think--but, if what they think happens to compromise MY place in society, i'm going to disagree with them loud and hard.

edit

you're not a misogynist, by the way. who cares if some people don't know the meaning of the term and call you that? it's actually just like when i get called a man-hater--it's stupid and i have to ignore it. people throw these words around. the only people i will openly call a misogynist is someone like howard stern or larry flynt.

Answer 9

No, that's not fair. Everyone should be concerned with everyone else's problems to some degree. If a woman is unconcerned with what men say, she shouldn't expect men to be concerned with what she says.

Answer 10

I think all peoples opinions and thoughts are important. Unless the directly attack another in a demeaning, hostile, negative, way.