Does degradation really exist?

Question

I could easily describe a situation, say a scene from the vilest pornography, in the most neutral, clinical terms (though I won't because it would be reported), and that that THAT is all one "really" sees and that "degradation" is just a judgment imposed by our culture and society.

Would that mean that "degradation" is just a social construct?

And if so, so what?

Would it mean that degradation doesn't exist?

Would it mean that "degradation" has no place in our discussions of human interactions? Would it mean foregoing moral judgment altogether?

No, degradation is not simply an emotional response like, e.g. anger, sadness, or fear. "Degradation" makes sense only in the context of a notion of the moral worth of a person and in the refusal to acknowledge that worth or to seek to deprive someone of their sense of that worth.

Alex, many cases? Which cases aren't and how would one decide? And surely our experience of interactions involving gender also cause is pain, joy, sadness, et al, so then gender exists as well, does it not?

Incidentally, to my mind, the question about smiles is actually more interesting, just subtler and less dramatic.

TERA, to clarify, I am NOT trying to trivialize degradation. I am not dismissing it. And I am not saying we should "get over it".

On the contrary, I am making the point that blabber about "social constructs" is largely confused and dogmatic and showing an example that the "enlightened" would not so readily dismiss as they do the example of "gender".

Answer 1

A person can feel degraded even when he/she knows nothing about the concept itself or about society's constructs.

When I was four years old, I was sexually abused by a babysitter. I wasn't old enough to know about what society "would think" about this, and I didn't even know what "sex" was. But I can tell you this: I knew that what this person did to me made me feel really bad- like I was a bad person, that it was wrong- that there was something wrong with me- that it was degrading- even though I didn't have words to describe the word "degraded" (back then), I definitely felt it. At four years old, I had no concept of sex, no concept of much of anything. So how could I have felt this if it were not something that was an individual emotional response? The abuse degraded me....and I felt it.

I suppose "degradation" is also a social construct, but to a four year old, it isn't. It's an emotion.

I agree with Steven D. It can exist on an individual level...apart from social construct. Maybe if not for the experience I mentioned above, I would not understand this as well as I do. I think I also understand what you are getting at, though. It seems you are saying that perhaps society's idea of degradation is what causes people to feel degraded...but I can't say that I agree. If you've ever been degraded, you know how horrible the feeling is, and that though it results from an experience, the feelings that this causes originate from within.

We don't need a social construct to tell us murder is wrong. We don't really need laws to tell us this either. In the absence of laws, or constructs, my guess is that we wouldn't all be killers. There's something inside of human beings, something spiritual, perhaps, something to do with empathy, too, that we are born with...maybe it's also intelligence...because most of us would not want to do something to someone else that we wouldn't want done to us. And we don't need society to tell us what those things are, necessarily. We just know. The laws and constructs are there because there are a few people in the world who do not have this inner knowledge, and without the laws and constructs they would prey upon others for their own self-gain. (And some do anyway, as we all know...)

Perhaps the "construct" exists in order to mete out and punish those who violate others, and to protect society from harm.

Answer 2

Go to the nearest neighborhood you would typically have the soundness of mind to stay away from. See how long you could stay there without being assaulted in the manner you're likely not to recover from quickly. After that, come back here and give your insightful assessment of your theory on degradation. We will all be looking forward to it.

But then, it might be argued that degradation cannot be voluntary. So scratch that idea. Besides, you would likely not survive the ordeal.

But, if you're really intent on knowing the higher truth regarding this. Follow my advice in the first paragraph. This time though, insulting everyone in the vicinity of you. Make sure you verbally abuse everyone's mother without regard for your life. Maybe then we can forgo the argument of voluntary engagement. Because once you have taken things to this level, you will no longer have any say in the extent to which you're treated to the most degrading @$$kicking one can imagine.

Does that help in your understanding this question?

Shingoshi Dao

Answer 3

That's a more interesting question. Yes, degradation does exist, but yes, I think in many cases it is socially constructed. However, that does not deny the damage. We are all products of the society that formed us. It most certainly has a place in human interactions. It does not mean foregoing moral judgment because while degradation may be socially constructed, it causes real pain. And that pain cannot be denied.
*****
I think there are certain cases of degradation or "shaming" behaviors that are universal. You can look to animals for those.

Answer 4

Degradation is just an individual feeling and way of perceiving oneself and others. Some use it as a weapon and some even like to claim, as an ideological construct, that they are degraded when that feeling is not genuine. You speak of "human" interactions but how do we know that some of the higher animals like the primates cannot feel degraded.

Nothing to do with sex, gender, race, social constructs, or whatever. Sometimes words can get in the way of understanding.

Answer 5

I admire your logic and belief system, you are no doubt very versed in the bible to have come up with this statement. I dont however think this is even really a question. It would be like saying does love exist... have you ever seen it? Can you measure love, hate, grief without interference from varying human behavior. See, god exists to those it does. Much in the same way I see god every time I see life being created, or a tornado, or earthquake etc. Others would witness those things and think it was purely "Nature". I think god is a fourth dimensional collection of everything that has been and will be in terms outside of "normal" human intelligence... kinda like "Nature". ... soooo, I guess the short answer would be yes, but I would never push my belief system on you. I will never tell another human "Sorry to break it to you but God does not exist." We all have different fingerprints. We all have different ideas and opinions. There are those of us who are ok with this, then there are people like you.

Answer 6

A "judgment" imposed - arbitrarily - "by our culture and society" you ask?

deg·ra·da·tion (dgr-dshn)
n.
1. The act or process of degrading.
2. The state of being degraded; degeneration.
3. A decline to a lower condition, quality, or level.
4. Geology A general lowering of the earth's surface by erosion or weathering.
5. Chemistry Decomposition of a compound by stages, exhibiting well-defined intermediate products.
6. Computer Science The state in which a computer operates when some of its memory or peripherals are not available.

I think definition number three is the one we should examine more closely: "A decline to a lower condition, quality, or level." but in subjective or objective terms? Lets look at how degredation is manifested, and its effects upon the human psyche.

You will find answers to both of these questions in the following document: it is called 'The Psychology of Degradation' and explores the psychological effects of degredation on detainees in the so-called "War Against Terror". Described below is a 'how-to manual' provided to those who practice 'Enhanced Interrogation" - what the rest of the world knows as 'torture':

"The document is divided into four categories: "Degradation," "Physical Debilitation," "Isolation and Monopoliztion [sic] of Perception," and "Demonstrated Omnipotence." The tactics include "slaps," "forceful removal of detainees' clothing," "stress positions," "hooding," "manhandling," and "walling," which entails grabbing the detainee by his shirt and hoisting him against a specially constructed wall."

Read more at http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2007/08/degradation_phd.html

The answer to your question is YES, the use of degradation is alive and well. It's clearly not a "social construct";

rather, it is a much-used instrument of TORTURE.

Answer 7

Degradation can certainly happen at the individual level. Degradation is a word that we invented as humans to describe the feeling of defilement caused by one person exercising domination over another. In this sense, it is not a moral judgment, but a description of emotional response.

Answer 8

Degradation is a social construct, however that construct does exist in our society, so the reality of degradation does exist.
There can be no degradation without a concious awareness of it, however we are aware of it, so it is real.

Answer 9

___Most social constructs are articulations of naturally-occurring phenomena. Even dogs can show something like shame. The margin of social constructedness varies, depending on cultural customs.
___The depersonalization of describing personally powerful events in clinical language is itself a kind of degradation.
___Observe social animals when the dominant animal forces others to submit. This is a form of degradation, and it is "perfectly natural", but humans try to construct social institutions that prevent this kind of degradation from occurring gratuitously.
___At the other extreme, some segments of the population promote hypersensitivity to relatively unavoidable slights. People have their private developmental experiences, psychological issues, and desires with potential to grow infinitely. It is inevitable that conflicts and differences in opinion about who "deserves" what will arise. Each of us is "entitled", in a fair world, to only 1 six billionth of all possible worldly gratifications, whether social or material. The rest is earned in the exchange of goods and services, including emotional, sexual, and psychological exchanges. In a fair world, one isn't entitled to much unless one contributes to others, and gets something in return. Whoever promotes the idea that some group of people are "entitled" to more, without making contributions to earn it, that is, who promotes a subjectivism-based hypersensitivity, is guilty of immoral and unethical acts. Whatever extremity of feelings I have, whatever duress I'm under, I'm not truly entitled to any more than my basic share and what I earn in addition. If I get lucky, and get rich quick, or inherit good looks or brains, then I ought to be sensible of some manner of moral obligation to use my gifts more wisely than someone on the bottom of the luck-pile.
___This may seem like a far tangent, but it relates to considerations of whether one is morally entitled to indulge feelings of degration. Though in practice there is no way to detrermine what one six-billionth of worldly gratification is, or to determine the exact value of the kinds and amounts of contributions one makes, IN PRINCIPLE one can get some bearings on the fairness by thinking of these matters in this way. Subjectivism-based measures of emotional validity and indulgence are ultimately immoral and unethical.
___If someone wants to make an issue out of degradation, the fairness of the issue in the big picture needs to be considered.

Answer 10

Yes just like lieing exists. Just like with lieing you know in your heart of hearts that their is something wrong with it. Although you can learn to live with it and have it as a part of your life.