How is it possible to consciously or subconsciously see men as oppressors?

Question

yet develop a loving/intimiate relationship and wake up next to one every day?

Layla, once again, you're jumping all over the place with assumptions and judgment. I have expressed, over and over again. that I do ***not*** associate myself with any "isms." I'm a free thinker. I believe strongly in feminism's original goals of equality among genders. Some perceive that as being a feminist, others don't. If I'm not concerned about a label, why are you in such a need to box me? Even if I was a "hardcore feminist," I would still look more critically at my own convictions than others would. You can read my thoughts on my page and box it into whatever "group" fits your perception best.

Carrie, I like your points. But you do agree that men are routinely pointed out as "oppressors" in some literature, right? I'm referring to those who really see the entire male gender that way. I have seen this perception being backed up by "I would never look a certain way to please a man"...which also indicates resentment...why wouldn't I want to look pleasant for a man? I clean my house when I have visitors, why wouldn't I want to look good/sexy for the man I'm with?

Layla: I don't have issues with men, neither do the men that I care about or think highly of. How do you see my problems with the opposite sex, not knowing anything about my life, men around me, or my daily interaction with them? lol

Baba: Thank you.

Ms Sophie: I have been very outspoken about having been through molestation and war in my past, but I never saw men as oppressors--only certain men and politicians but I could never refer to the entire gender as oppressors and be a sellout by having sex with one. Although I think this explains why some feel so strongly about not putting a man in charge. If he's an oppressor, then you wouldn't want him to feel good or have any control.

I'm particularly referring to men being in charge in a personal/intimate relationship.

Ms Sophi: Also, if we agree that those who see men as oppressors went through some sort of personal trauma, then we should agree that an ideology should not even get close to referencing these individuals as leaders due to their personal gender bias.

Ms Sophie: I agree with respecting other people's decisions. I may be aggressive and passionate when i debate and catch a "flaw" in the argument but that's just my personality. I talk as passionately with my hands and all LOL. And nothing to be sorry for. My past made me who I am, and I'm not sorry about that :)

Answer 1

Well, patriarchy is a system. Since I'm white and middle class, I don't think I'm oppressed, but I can't deny that there is a system against women, that is much greater than individual men - however, some men take more advantage of this system than other men do. I think it's fairly easy to tell which individual men are taking advantage of the system - those who are physically and/or verbally abusive, those who are controlling, those who use their male privilege to always have the upper hand in a relationship. Those types of men are the oppressive men - using the system to their advantage and reinforcing it at the same time.

There are a few men like that. I have experienced it in my own life, both with an ex-boyfriend of mine (I was really young... we all make mistakes!! Never again!), and with my friends' ex-boyfriends (and one particular friend's current boyfriend... god, I HATE that guy), but for the most part, I'd like to give men some credit and say that the majority of them are enlightened enough to view women as equals and have no desire to use the system to their advantage.

Answer 2

It usually is a direct result of some kind of abuse: be it a rape or molestation to some degree at some point of a woman's life, or a participation in a war or any other excessively violent altercation with opposite sex. As a result of a trauma, we feel certain mistrust toward the other gender as a group ( no matter how unfair it might sound to you, it makes perfect sense to a survivor during her recovery... ). A personal relationship with another individual is a very different story: he becomes a friend, and you find yourself trusting him against your better judgment. It is not an easy process, but it is very much possible. I am a living proof of it.

Edit: Dear Lioness, I was simply sharing my own opinion, based on my own experience. BTW, I had no idea you went through so many unfortunate experiences in your life. Even though, I am truly sorry for all the pain you had to go through, I can see how beautifully it shaped your mind and soul.
I am also surprised to know that in your emotional recovery you somehow passed by the classical stage of anger ( lucky you ! ).

I think we should listen to everyone's opinions, but chose to believe in things that correlate with our own values.

Answer 3

I have pondered this for quite some time. The conclusion I have come to is that it can't be done. Those women who see men as oppressors probably have had a traumatic relationhip in their past and do not have the capacity for intimate relationships with men. That would imply trust. From what I've seen in adult relationships, many people will "recreate" a past traumatic relationship in some effort to fix what they didn't know how to fix before, falsely believing that what was broken was themselves.

Answer 4

Isn't it a sort of 'group hate', inculcated by the feminista spin machine, conflicting with the natural human need to give and receive love. Those so afflicted will only become free when they finally realize that they have nothing to lose but the chains which have been placed around their minds

Answer 5

Find a guy who empathizes with your concerns about the topic. As stated above men as a group might try and dominant, but many individuals males have more intellect and self control then the 'group' mentality.

Answer 6

Patriarchy as a social system is oppressive...to men and women. Men, as individuals, are not oppressors.

So there's no mystery here.

Answer 7

I would say it is possible through hearing all of the hysteria that is produced but at the same time knowing that is simply not true. I would think that this could cause a duality of emotion that surfaces at different times.

Edit: I think Lioness is asking an honest question here people cut her some slack and listen to what she is saying.

Answer 8

whoa I've tripped onto a debate forum and it seems more tense than the R&S category.uhh...yeah, some men are sexually oppressed and stuff or something and the some women are bitter or whatever.maybe, maybe not.I don't know.I'm a neutral bystander in this category:-D

Answer 9

Try as I might, I cannot see men as oppressors. I have seen men who don't like women and would prefer not to deal with women as peers, but they aren't "oppressors." I don't deal with men like that. Therefore I have not had problems developing loving/intimate relationships.

Great question!!!

Answer 10

THAT is one of the great mysteries of feminism. And is a reason that most feminists who see the world this way will seldom experience the latter for any extended period of time. How long can you really sleep with the enemy?