Liberals/Conservatives, Bush, Iraq, Iran, American foreign policy both past and present & radical Islam?

Question

I often hear people justify radical Islamists fury with us with complaints of American foreign policy. Most of us are well aware of NUMEROUS American foreign policy blunders but, that awareness does nothing to counter the hot water we as a nation are in now.

On a smaller scale this is similar to really making a dangerous psycho mad (say you cut them off in traffic, flipped them the bird etc.) and you are at fault but, when they come after you to hurt or kill you and your family, you’re not going to throw up your hands and say, “hey man, fire away because I deserve it” are you?

I say no and I would like to think that most of you agree that regardless of Americas past and present foreign policy mistakes in the Middle East in particular we can all agree that we must be prepared to defend ourselves.

This question is in direct reference to:
Are you aware of Chavez’s threat to unleash operatives in America if we attack Iran?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmPBKo58R__BXS.AZrNs7XDsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071018121509AA3xcKx

What say you?

Bumblebe - Not taking someone seriously is one of the biggest mistakes a leader can make, remember Hitler?.

Gustavo Coronel: Chavez buys weapons, Venezuelans go hungry
http://www.petroleumworld.com/Lag07022201.htm

Venezuela strikes £500m deal to buy Russian submarines
http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,2103589,00.html

captain_koyk – Ahhh… never mind.

TJTB - That is precisely the point of this question. To acknowledge our past mistakes but, also acknowledge the fact that we must defend ourselves because they are not going to accept an apology and just go away.

You just repeated everything I acknowledged but, left out the fact that we must defend ourselves regardless.

EDIT: (better wording) You just gave some specifics (which I am well aware of) on that which I acknowledged but, left out the fact that we must defend ourselves regardless.

Peacedevi – Sigh… never mind. Well, yeah… Please click the link I reference and then come back and do some editing to your answer if you have the time or desire.

BekindtoAnimals22 - sigh... I love you people coming here and trying to educate me on why they hate us... Would you like me to write a freaking book on every singe f'n question to appease people like you?

Not going to do it.

Address the question at hand or don't bother.

TJTB - Outstanding - First we must stop the continuation of committing these acts. That will signal to the world that we're no longer a threat to their lives and sovereignty. Then we must fortify our defense, NOT our offense, but our DEfense. I promise to you, that the only true and long lasting path to peace is through justice. Thanks

BekindtoAnimals22 - Sorry I blew up at you.

peacedev - I did put it at the bottom (it was there when you answered first). Check the times of the orig post and the additional details. Regardless, thanks for coming back. But, you still missed the whole point about MS13 & other drug gangs, al-Qeuda/Hamas and Chavez's threat to unleash them if we attack Iran... sigh. Plenty of other people got the point so, that means they got it, why didn’t the people I railed about? They did not pay attention as they don’t pay attention to much of the other reality in the world that surrounds us. They are so focused on bashing Bush that they can’t see the forest for the trees.

peacedevi - Thank you and I do apologize for some of what I said as well. The good Lord knows I wish we would expose all of the BS this great nation has done in the past. I wish we could go back and change it all… I am currently engaged in a day to day email conversation with a Muslim who is sympathetic to al-Qaeda. Like I told him I do pray for and sometimes shed tears (I don’t cry much anymore) for the fallen innocent of both sides…

With that said, I have learned to never dismiss a threat offhand. I take every one very seriously (10 years US Navy, electronic warfare). I would rather be over prepared than under prepared as you can never ask someone to please stop because you were not ready.

Answer 1

Act, dont React.

I am tempted to leave it at that. I am reminded of a lesson that I learned in church as a teen. It is SO hard to do. You don't know how badly I want to say nuke them all. I want to say f#$# them, this is the United States of American that they are messing with. I want to avenge EVERY death of a US Marine with 1,000 deaths of them.

When I asked earlier if the President was irresponsible in talking about WW III, I really thought about asking a question similar to this. The problem is, I don't have the answers. I only have the questions.

Yes, absolutely we must be preparared to defend ourselves. We must be prepared to go on the offensive if that is what is needed. But first and foremost we must be prepared to defend our ideology. We must stick to our principles and tell the world that we are right. I know this sounds ridiculous, but we ARE right!

I think that most people do not believe that anymore. They talk about WWII in grand terms and how we won blah blah blah. They do not realize WHAT we won. We won the battle of ideologies.

So anyway, Have a nice day.

I cut myself off intentionally. You could see that, I think.

I was in the Marine Corps in the 1980's. I know, I am an old fart. Anyway, at that time our enemy was the Soviet Union and then Libya. I remember waking up in cold sweats because I thought we were going to have a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. I remember my girlfriend in college telling me that I was crazy for worrying so much. Do you think I underestimate the threat of Jihadists? Absolutely not. Do you think I have any answers? Absolutely not. Do you think I need a drink right now, Absolut ly LOL.

There are few here that I have come to respect, you are one.

Answer 2

Oh yeah I still remember how this work we embargo the Japanese because they are invading their neighbors in a quest for natural resources Japan didn't have so then they declare war on us attack Pearl Harbor.

Move to modern era at the end of WW 2 there isn't much cohesion among Arab nations or people and as some of the countries had sided with the NAZIs ( strange how people like to forget that part) the allies particularly Britain changed a few boundaries and installed a few rulers to try and stabilize this place.
Yes we had a hand in this also.
Did we slaughter these guys whole sale no that is something they are much better at than we could ever aspire to be?

Yeah we have dabbled in their politics, is someone claiming they have stayed out of ours.

And by the way if it weren't for BP, Standard, Amoco and some others where would these freakin camel jockeys be anyway.
Mostly still living in tents and raiding each other for women and supplies.

But I do understand the question:
If you flip me off I kill you and everybody in the vehicle with you even if it's a school buss full of children.

If I step on your toe at the mall you must annihilate every one in the mall to redeem face and please ALLAH.

In other words the Judaists can do anything they want to for any insult real or imagined and WE (being the ones they are doing this insulting) must sit idly by or even help them by exposing our security to them in the media so they could slaughter us a little easier.

HEEELLLL NNNOOO
I don't want to fight any one but if they insist then we must oblige.
For decades even our most useless leaders have tried to have dialogue with these people and most of them continue to teach their toddlers to murder us whole sale.

Answer 3

Finally! people are opening their eyes to see the truth and the facts displayed here speak for themselves. After that great answer from gypsy_cat 345, i haven't got much to say except that people like Vanessa should look at the bigger picture and make her own assessments, rather than believing in what the media WANT people to believe. also, i don't think people should balme the Islamic RELIGION for the actions of ignorant so-called Muslims who claim they are acting on its behalf. secondly, i don't think Israel is JUST a small country that wants to be left alone. If this was the case it would not have waged a full-blown war on lebanon, killing thousands of people in order to regain 2 of their soldiers who were captured by Hezbollah. Shouldn't they think about releasing the 1000s of lebanese prisoners currently in Israel! Thirdly, Muslims do not have anything against Jews. The issue is with the Zionists and Israelis. BTW, I am NOT Lebanese. I'm simply stating what i beleive is the truth

Answer 4

With all due respect, the analogy that we've cut them off and now they're coming to kill us and our families is not a good one. The reality is that they've had something we wanted and we pulled out and used a gun to get it. In the meanwhile we also killed a few innocent bystanders and called it collateral damage. They don't see it as us simple cutting them off and breaking the laws of etiquette, they see the rape and destruction we caused and now they're coming after us to get us to fianlly stop
Many people wondered in 1979 why our embassy workers were taken hostage. Most were, and some still are, unaware pf what we did there a couple of decades before. I will provide a link which will give a brief recap of Operation Ajax, which in essence destroyed a newly forming, prowestern democracy led by a Swiss educated and internationally well respected man and we forced the corrupt shah via a bloody coup to get our hand back into the cookie jar and also get British Petrolium to share the spolis with us.
here's a brief history of the atrocity we commited against Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

I also suggest reading a book written by a man who has bipartisan respect. His name is Steven Kinzer (yes, he's even Jewish) and the book is called "All The Shah's Men".
I think as Americans we owe it to ourselves to figure out why, and how we've gotten to this point. Unless and until we do this, we will continue to make the same mistakes as we've made.
thanks for a thought provoking and fair question.

####
ps, In the late 70's when the Soviets were inflitrating Afghanistan, the US and Britain gave support to the laundry heads during the regime change in Iran. This was intended to thwart the soviets, but it back fired and not only did we regret this, but the Iranians have had this disease called the Islamic Republic with which to contend.
####
Edit:
True, we DO need to protect ourselves. First we must stop the continuation of committing these acts. That will signal to the world that we're no longer a threat to their lives and sovereignty. Then we must fortify our defense, NOT our offense, but our DEfense. I promise to you, that the only true and long lasting path to peace is through justice. There can never be peace as long as there is injustice, because the 'weak' oppressed will resort to any means necessary to level the playing field. That, my friend is terror to one side while it's self preservation to the other side. Is it wrong? Yes. Do we give them any other choice? NO.
The choice we must give must be just: allow me to give you an example:
The Iranian regime is hated and despised by the Iranians and we all know that. These crack pot mullahs are on their last leg in Iran. We need to empower the Iranians to get rid of their cancer WITHOUT attacking them. If the Iranians feel the imminence of an attack they're going to raly behind their government, albeit reluctantly and we'll defeat our long term gain. They must do this themselves for it to last, otherwise we're continuing with the cycle of attack which will inevitably be followed by a counter attack, even if it takes decades. We must promote their struggle, but NOT with those transparent dirty tricks of the past. People are now on to us as are the American people who are becoming unjustifiably equated with the decisions of a few people who have less than nobel intentions.

Answer 5

Ack! Frustration. I just wrote a complete re-edit and my computer froze up.

First of all, I will point out a couple of things. I have had questions deleted in the past for posting questions that relied on outside links to answer. I'm not saying this because I plan on reporting you, but so that you don't get intelligent questions deleted for a COC violation (however, the COC has changed since then, so you might check and make sure that it is okay before you do it again).

Given the way that you didn't mention those links in your main body, I assumed that they were peripheral to your argument ,and that I could get enough of a sense from the "Chavez threatens.."label on the link. I was wrong and I admit it.


Now, I still have concerns. 1) The only reference I can find to them having anything to do with Chavez AND terrorist plots against the United States is that one blog. Most of the other references that came up were from much earlier, say, 2005.

IF, I hear relevent and accurate (and not wild eyed Fox news) report that this is a real and present terrorist threat, than I will believe it. I hope that you will pardon me (after Bush and his team sold a war by claiming false ties to a leader and terrorist groups such as Al Queda) if I wait for comfirmation by more trusted sources, especially considering (if memory serves correctly) that Venezuala sits on a pretty nice supply of oil as well.

I do believe that MS has certainly been extreme trouble here in the US. The link to deliberate terrorism is what I am suspicious of.

Yes, the US has the right to defend itself. The trick is, with our huge infrastructure, that pre-empting these guys if they are a terrorist threat, is going to be rather difficult while still maintaining Americans privacy and civil rights.

I still say, that worldwide, we need to apologize for the many, many instances of government meddling, dictatator supporting, oppression that we have unleashed on the world, we need to take steps to reduce and end any that we are engaging in now. Once we have worldwide credibility restored, we will be at a much more advantageous point to begin addressing these issues.

I also assert, that you would have been more satisified with your answers if you had mentioned the MS and stated a clearer and more coherently stated question and thesis.

I applaud all of those who immediately understood. Great for them. Sometimes people of differening Myers Briggs personality persuasions need questions posed in different ways. It doesn't mean that those who didn't get it are necessarily stupid.

Answer 6

This is the basis for what you are talking about. The Bush administration claims that radical Islam hates us because of our freedoms. The fact is they were not against us until the U.S. government interfered in their governments. Also, we put our military on their holy ground during the first attack on Iraq, which, in my opinion was not something any American thought would lead to a jihad against us or would be seen as anything but a worthy cause. We were there for good reason. The Israel Palistinian situation is also fueling the situation.

Over simplification of our problems in the Middle East and vague responses are not appreciated. Nobody had any qualms about attacking Afghanistan. How does telling the truth give any justification to what radical Islam has done? It doesn't justify it. It just gives it a sense of reality for future foreign policy decisions in the region. We clearly do not know this enemy and understanding their real motivations is extremely important to our success in war or in peace. Defending ourselves is the normal response.

Answer 7

We should defend ourselves,I doubt anyone would disagree. We shouldn't live in fear or drop to the level of those whose actions we oppose. In Iraq we didn't defend ourslves,in Afghanistan we did. What does creating little catchy names for terrorists accomplish? Terrorism has nothing to do with true Islam just because some nut with their own agenda says so. People need to understand when the terrorism we face today started. I think you posted something about it once.

Answer 8

Chavez is but a bit player on the world stage. In fact, if that scuzzy, smelly little troll didn't sit on all that oil, he'd be nothing more than a mosquito buzzing around your head on a summer night. He's about as intimidating as Richard Simmons or Clay Aiken. I'd LOVE to pimp-slap that little punk.
The only "operatives" he's capable of releasing are those he releases after a Venezuelan burrito.
Don't take ANYTHING that punk says seriously.

Answer 9

One of the best ways to defend ourselves is to cut off the source of money to the terrorists.

That means that we blockade countires ability to export oil if they give support to terrorists.

Iran, because of its support for terrorists around the world should be blockaded.

If Chavez in Venezuela sends terrorists into the United States or funds terrorists in the United States, his ability to export oil should be blocked also.

If necessary you can bomb the pipelines and the oil fields.

Without money these vicious dictatorships will have little or no ability to fund terrorism.

Answer 10

Hugo Chavez is a dangerous, rabid dog. He is advancing a program of socialist tyranny and aligning himself with radical Islamic terrorists