Do you think it's unreasonable for skeptics to offer their opinions?

Question

Is anything worth believing in so strongly above public scrutiny?

If the paranormal is as real as many believers claim, shouldn't it be able to survive such public evaluation?

Should any group be allowed to make any claim at all and expect those claims to be immune from public examination?

I am not defending the rude, childish or inappropriate of any camp. I am asking why it is believers in the paranormal are so adamant that their beliefs be treated like a sacred cow.

Please note that I have never blocked anyone (even though some believers have blocked me) and all are free to answer this question.

psi,

You and I both know the PA is an affiliate of the AAAS only because Margaret Mead (a figurehead chosen less for her science than her celebrity) had an affinity for parapsychology.

There has been at least one attempt by members of the AAAS to have this affiliation removed for no other reason than the fact that parapsychology has not yielded theories explaining what, if any, phenomena exist and what the cause of such phenomena may be.

At the time of it's admittance there was a possibility that perhaps parapsychology (as phrenology, water dowsing, etc. before it) might pan out as a legit science. However, after many tests, studies and research nothing--including your ganzfeld example--has offered up conclusive, positive evidence to support it. I have seen numerous interpretations of the data that conclude anywhere from sub-chance (below 25%) to 34% hits. This is not conclusive data. And if it were, it's only one experiment. If it were real it would be all over the place

Answer 1

From what I understand of Yahoo's policy (and it is Yahoo's right to choose their own policy), any Yahoo Answer user has the right to answer any question, as long as it follows the rules.

But I think you're asking a bigger question than that. Should skeptics, out of some sense of morality or etiquette, politely step out of any conversation having to do with the paranormal? I suppose it depends on the venue.

Here, we're in the Science & Mathematics category. There are some who steadfastly insist that we are not in fact in the Science & Mathematics category, though it boggles the mind to try to understand why they are so confused about simple categorization. Anyhow, here in Science & Mathematics, skeptics are most at home since science itself is a skeptical and systematic pursuit of knowledge. Anywhere in Science & Mathematics, including all sub-categories, skeptics should not have to feel restrained from offering their skeptical opinions and critically examining any claim. While being polite is always a nice thing, mystical thinking should be called out for what it is, and why mystical thinking is out of place in Science & Mathematics.

How about over in Religion & Spirituality? Mythology & Folklore? My personal opinion is that while skeptics are technically allowed to express their opinions there as well, perhaps the polite thing to do is to allow such believers to have their own forum where they can share like ideas without having to deal with mood-breakers opening the door and turning on the light.

EDIT: Regarding psi's comment about the AAAS, there is a message in the forum talking about this (see link). Someone quite astutely pointed out that the American Alpine Club, a group all about rock climbing, is an elected affiliate of the AAAS. But this does not make rock climbing a field of science. You don't find rock climbing being taught in any of the science departments in any of our universities. The AAC might engage in scientific activities, but this STILL doesn't make rock climbing scientific. Likewise, the PA might engage in scientific activities (or attempt to), but their affiliation does not make parapsychology a science, either. Same logic. In fact, there are affiliates focused on social policy - is that now a science? The Institute on Religion in an Age of Science? According to psi's logic, the IRAS's affiliation makes religion a science. That's a new one. The U.S. Metric Association? Metric units are certainly used in science, but is the metric system itself a science? psi's logic seems to say that it is.

So the argument psi is using to justify parapsychology as science is wholly fallacious. Just plain bad reasoning.

Answer 2

1. No it is not unreasonable for anyone to offer their opinions (even on Yahoo Answers) but it shouldn't be stated as fact like "there is no evidence" when there is a hundred years of data providing evidence. Now your opinion may be that the evidence is not credible, insufficient, inconclusive, etc. but that is an opinion (regardless of how many people share it)
2. Nothing is above public scrutiny.
3. Some paranormal phenomena has survived both public and scientific evaluation(Remote Viewing, AutoGanzfeld) which is at least partially why it continues to be around for the public and scientific studies continue. That does not mean that it can not or should not be questioned I believe everything is open to examination including long established scientific laws and accepted theories.

4. No any claim is open to public examination although I think that the Bush administration acts like it should be immune from any evaluation. What I object to is skeptics that do not provide the actual information/research so the pubic can inform themselves. I don't think a link to an article in Skeptics magazine is the same as the original research articles. However, I do think secondary sources on controversial issues should also be considered.

5, Here is a quote from one of your answers 2 days ago
"I want people to embrace science and leave behind all of the Middle Ages superstition and magical thinking."

Obviously some people including the American Association for the Advancement of Science (link below) which elected the Parapsychological Association (link below) as an affiliate in 1969 does not believe that it or any other AAAS affiliate is engaging in superstition or magical thinking. Many people on here also do not regard their beliefs as such and were probably offended by such a comment.
I have always understood science as being able to be applied to the study of almost anything including magical thinking (granted more of a social science question).
Perhaps if you put your effort toward helping people use science to examine their beliefs (anyone can apply the scientific method) it would go further than comments like "there is no evidence"

The opinions and beliefs expressed above and acknowledged as such are mine alone and should not be taken to represent the beliefs or opinions of any other persons or organizations.

Again opinions expressed without any research into the facts here is a quote from the American Alpine Club (link below) that does support and engage in scientific research.

"The American Alpine Club Selects 2007 Research Grant Winners Golden, Colorado—June 2007—The American Alpine Club (AAC) recently announced the winners of the 2007 Research Grants. Ten individuals were selected and a total of over $10,000 was awarded through various funds. Proposals ranged from man’s impact on the alpine environment, including topics in climate change and avalanche research, to research identifying injury and treatment patterns for rock climbers. "

Edit: One experiment that has been replicated numerous time which is how science provides evidence and not with a single positive one time experiment which Ray Hyman (a skeptic who helped write the protocols for the AutoGanzfeld and thus contributed to science) was very clear about.
Yes, it is all over the place it appeared in the Psychological Bulletin (a publication of the American Psychological Association) and numerous others social science journals have covered the topic.
There is a link to the Parapsychological Association below if you wish to educate your self about the numerous peer reviewed science journals that parapsychological research has been published in.

Also, you neglected the Remote Viewing Star Gate program that Jessica Utts gave a positive statistical review of stating that the phenomena as far as statistics could contribute had been established. Granted I believe the other reviewer was Hyman and he did not reach the same conclusions.

I agree that Margaret Meas was instrumental in the PA gaining affiliation (see we agree on something scary huh) (and it doesn't just take paying the dues as one skeptic on here suggested). However, the council vote to allow membership was 6 to 1 so she was not the only deciding factor.
I also truly hope that if the majority of the members of the AAAS do not feel that it is a science that the council would respect their wishes. However, I think that your view is currently in the minority.
Again just a difference of opinions over how to interpret the evidence and I appreciate your spirited and polite discussion :)

Answer 3

No, I don't think my beliefs should be treated like a sacred cow. I have no problem with those who simply believe differently. In fact, I respect all people's beliefs. After all, I'm very aware that my view point is just that--mine. And yours might be different. I have a problem with people who tell you that there's something wrong with every single person who believes in the paranormal. And let's face it, this place is ripe with them. I really wish there were more people out there who simply disagreed, but didn't feel the need to insult others while they're at it.

EDIT: Didn't read the responses before I replied. ITA with John S, who said it far better than I.

Answer 4

I can only answer your questions on behalf of myself, for I have no right to answer for others!

Do you think it's unreasonable for skeptics to offer their opinions? NO

Is anything worth believing in so strongly above public scrutiny? NO

If the paranormal is as real as many believers claim, shouldn't it be able to survive such public evaluation? YES

Should any group be allowed to make any claim at all and expect those claims to be immune from public examination? NO


I am a believer in many things!
The one thing I beleive the strongest in is
FREE WILL!
Blessings!

Answer 5

I do not think it's unreasonable for skeptics to offer their opinions. There are many skeptics I respect very much.
The reason I am active in this section is that something unusual happened to me, and I'm trying to get a handle on what it was. Since I don't know what would cause such an event, I certainly can't bear the burden of proof. Since it did happen, I am thankful to those helping me in my quest for answers. There is no desire to "convince" anyone to "believe". If someone has experienced something like it, they don't need to be convinced. If not, I can hardly blame them if they doubt it. I would very likely doubt it too, but it certainly put me in my place! If you're interested, here is a paste...

I was riding in the front passenger seat of my friend Dave's 1940 Ford with his girlfriend Linda between us. We were just cruising randomly enjoying a drive through suburban/rural NJ. Suddenly I felt very strange. I closed my eyes and it was as though I'd stepped into a movie. The colors were deeper and brighter than real life. I saw us (still in the car) on the wrong side of the road. There were flashing red lights ahead of us and something going on up a hill on our left. This was totally unexpected and very vivid. I was startled. I opened my eyes and said something appropriate like HOLY SH*T! They asked me what that was about and I told them what happened to me. They asked me if I was high or something and I truthfully said no. They reassured me that it was probably nothing to worry about and Dave kept driving.
We just cruised along for about another half hour or so going through quiet semi-rural neighborhoods. Then we came up on the exact scene I'd seen...there were police on the road directing us to drive on the wrong side to get us past some emergency vehicles that were there because a house was on fire up on the hill to our left. Dave and Linda looked at me with a mix of fear and astonishment, which was pretty much how I felt too. For about a week they were afraid of me, and of course I was pretty confused. Then I decided I must be psychic, something I'd never believed in. I went to the library and took out books on psychic phenomena. Some of them had exercises to increase psychic abilities and I tried the exercises. Well, the truth is I could never get anything at all to happen. Nothing! My conclusion is that I'm not psychic at all. Something I don’t understand caused this phenonemen. I'm totally convinced that I have no psychic abilities whatsoever. I'm also convinced that on very rare occasions something like this happens to some people for no apparent reason.

What do you want from me? To pretend it never happened because I can't explain it, duplicate it, show you the mechanism or give you laboratory evidence?
Skeptics are probably more often right than not, but they aren't helping me figure this one out! How would you feel if something like that happened to you?

Answer 6

No. As long as it's your true opinion and your not just being mean. I don't expect to change your opinion. I say a lot of things that I believe, why should you not be able to state your belief in something here. People come here for answers and they should get both sides, then make up their own mind.

Answer 7

It's not only reasonable it's an obligation.The crazy ideas that some people come up with need to be exposed.Some are well worded nonsense.Others, silly,childish ghost stories.I don't mean to be insulting here but that's what they are.Some of us are blocked.I take it as a compliment.Obviously they don't want anyone answering their questions with a dissenting opinion.Many of them would censure us all if they could.For instance one person who blocks answered this question.He's constantly mentioning the AAAS.A fine organization,but the only criteria for being an affiliate.Is being able to pay the fee.Very misleading I'd have say.

Answer 8

A persons beliefs should not be attacked.

Now that people are afraid to flip people off and yell at others on the highway fearing getting shot, The Internet is the new safe highway for those same cowards.
It satisfies that need to act out toward others, and remaining safe from retribution.
Every non moderated site such as this will have these guys flaming others.

Answer 9

Being a big Carl Sagan fan, I'll go with his best quote. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
It is that simple.