A few months ago I got into a debate with a co-worker over this issue, so I thought I would bring this question to the forum. My argument is that a growing team on the cusp of success needs a veteran (or two) with playoff experience to put them ove the top. To a player who has never been to the post-season, a veteran who has been there will give the proper guidance to said youngster. My co-worker disagrees, saying that the collective talent overcomes the overall lack of experience.
What does everyone think?
2007-10-16 06:25:31 · 12 answers · asked by Snoop 5 in Sports ➔ Hockey
Erica- I agree with you (I find myself doing that very often...us Penguins fans stick together)! I think that whatever happens with Crosby (whether he is the next Gretzky or an extremely talented version of Jean Beliveau), he has a couple Conn Smythes in his future.
2007-10-16 07:19:30 · update #1
Means nothing - highly overrated - get the old bums out.
I don't think I can underline how important this is. Butch Goring played an extremely important role in getting the Islanders over the hump in 1980.
John Tonelli provided needed experience to the 1986 Calgary Flames that aided them in their trip to the finals (even though they lost)
Joe Mullen and Larry Murphy were important forces for the 1991 and 1992 Penguins (Ron Francis was a veteran, but didn't have a ton of playoff experience)
The 1996 Avalanche were the pick of the Hockey News to win the Cup. They were 2nd overall when they made the trades for Roy and Claude Lemieux. But the experience of those two veterans solidified that team.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of the best moments of last year's playoffs came during a stoppage in play and HNIC showed a picture of three men on the bench....Roberts, Crosby, and Recchi.......and they stayed focused on them for a good minute...long enough for the fans to figure out that Recchi and Roberts weren't shutting up and Crosby was simply nodding his head. That said it all. That is why Shero went out and got Roberts!
The last team to collectively win it all? The 1984 Oilers........and it took them 5 years and a failed effort in 1983 to get there.
2007-10-16 17:17:35 · answer #1 · answered by Like I'm Telling You Who I A 7 · 4⤊ 0⤋
Tell your co-worker to stop drinking that kool-aid. Lol. Where did all that collective talent overcoming the overall lack of experience get the Pens? 1st round elimination. People made fun of Ottawa for being chokers in the playoffs, but because they had so much playoff experience, they knew right away what kind of game to play.
Seriously, as Pittsburgh Penguins fans, we have a good argument: we had the winner of the Hart, Pearson, and Art Ross trophies on our team and he admitted HIMSELF that he, and the rest of the young guys, (including the rookie of the year, Evgeni Malkin) were guilty of feeling-out the playoffs. I'm sure they prepared... but all the preparation in the world doesn't mean a thing when you get into your first playoff game and find that the speed and intensity is like nothing you've ever EXPERIENCED before. A player might have a skill potential in the playoffs, but he may not know how to reach his potential in a playoffs atmosphere.
However, if there were an exception to the rule... I think it would be Sidney Crosby. It's not just for reason of his hockey skills and talents though. I think that he adjusted a little quicker than most because he's used to tons of pressure being on him. He thrives on it, actually. That's how he realizes so much of his potential already.
2007-10-16 06:57:36 · answer #2 · answered by Erica 6 · 3⤊ 0⤋
I think it is important to have someone who has been there and done that. It is a bonus if the older players can contribute in a big way on the ice but they are really needed for their calming effect in the room on the younger guys. They will help more in preparation than in actual doing.
Most NHL GM's seem to agree with you as that veteran presence is what everyone looks for at the trade deadline.
If we look at the penguins they have a great mixture of youth and guys who have won it all (Recchi and Roberts). Very few teams succeed in the playoffs without at least a little grey hair. Even Tampa when they won had a young team but veterans like Dave Andrychuck. Carolina had Bindamour.
2007-10-16 06:35:46 · answer #3 · answered by cdn24fan 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Players/Teams play differently during the playoffs... the younger players may or may not sense or have experienced it... Older players can give them tips, confidence and encouragement... share plays that worked when the veterans were in their prime/that made them once a winner... Tell the younger players the "do's and don'ts"; and "not what you can do" but the "what you should do"... Help point out the other teams flaws and how to properly capitalize on them.
Watch any team that lacks veterans in their lineup during the playoffs... watch for all the innocent looking mistakes... Atlanta was a perfect example last playoffs...
Sens were once like that... they were always more skilled then the Leafs but could never beat the more experienced slower Leafs... Now that the Sens are all grown up with playoff experience, they are not just playoff-bound... they are cup contenders...
2007-10-16 09:06:56 · answer #4 · answered by Virus Type V 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
No doubt. They say a team needs to learn how to lose before it learns how to win. One or two experienced, grizzly veterans can help a young team avoid some of the stumbling blocks as it attempts to translate its potential into actual success.
Even though the Pens lost in the 1st round last Spring, having Roberts and Recchi in the dressing room was a huge plus for the team. The true value they bring might not be easily seen by fans, but it is reflected in how well the younger guys react to that experience going forward.
As for your coworkers theory on collective talent...remind him of the Oiler dynasty days. Remember the Miracle on Manchester series in '82 and the subsequent sweep in the finals at the hands of the Isles in '83?
That particular collection of talent had to go through the experience of loss and heartbreak before finding the resolve and will to achieve victory.
2007-10-16 11:45:48 · answer #5 · answered by zapcity29 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Most definitely. Playoffs are a totally different animal compared to regular season games. A coach can't guide a bunch of young players through to the Cup, it has to be players who have been through it a few times to help them. The Penguins last year were the perfect example. Gary Roberts is THE man when it comes to playoff grit, and, along with Recchi, I think they handled the young'uns pretty well. If it weren't for them, the Sens would've ran over them like a bulldozer and the Penguins would've been swept in a blowout. (I'm talking four-game shutouts, multiple goal wins, the wrath of the hockey god, that sort of thing.)
2007-10-16 07:24:52 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 0⤋
I agree with you.
I remember when Gretzky went to the playoffs with the Rangers, that one time. We had a few kids on the roster. There was a back to back situation in the series vs the Florida Panthers. The article that ran in the local newspaper described the lockerroom, prior to the second game of that back to back: Gretzky bouncing around the room like a kid, wearing a hat that said "NO FEAR". The kids got a good example there. Settle down, attend to business, and everything will be fine.
2007-10-16 06:31:14 · answer #7 · answered by Icewomanblockstheshot 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
i think that it is very important to have a veteran player going into the post season because these young players dont know what is going to happen in the playoffs and the playoffs are totally different from the regular season they are played more defensive and the vet players can help guide the way and they also know what happens and can help the young players to prepare
2007-10-16 09:19:55 · answer #8 · answered by rac531 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
i agree with you snoop, because if you look at the last teams that won the cup, anaheim had scott neidermeyer and teemu selanne that provided leadership, the carolina huricanes brought in doug weight , the tampa bay lightning had dave anrdychuck(sp?) when the playoffs are on the intensity picks up and veterans provide stability to the younger players overall talent is nothing without direction
2007-10-16 08:49:00 · answer #9 · answered by sshueman 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
as a pens fan, i can say that your both kinda wrong
The pens proved last year that collective talent and veteran experience isnt it, because recchi had won the previous year with Carolina, and there is definitely no lack of talent on the Penguins.
Chemistry is the key to any team. We proved that in 1980.
2007-10-16 08:12:02 · answer #10 · answered by shotgunmerc 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋