Is was genocide? How could Turkey not "see" that the mass killings of armenians was genocide!!?

Answer 1

Yes,by any definition of this term it was genocide.

To mahal above and others like him, who argue that this genocide was committed under the rule of the Ottomans and therefore technically not by Turkey,a modern state :

-1.Atatürk (Kemal),founder of modernTurkey, was a prominent political figure already under the Ottoman Empire and, in fact ,was actually in the War Office itself which was responsible for the orders given to wipe out the Armenians. Atatürk and his Young Turk party participated in the planning and execution of these orders. . The best recorded massacres of Armenians were the ones which took place during 1915-1917 when the world's attention was elsewhere,but systematic slaughter of the Armenians and other Christian groups took place way into the 1920's, even after Turkey became a modern secular state under Atatürk. A member of the Masonic lodge,he enjoyed the support of fellow members in the West,notably in G.B., who turned a blind eye to his excesses against religious groups. Masons are not exactly reknowned for their tolerance of religion.

-2. If for one second I and others,were to accept your reasoning that the Turkey of today does not have to recognise that the Turkey of the Ottoman Empire was responsible for a planned genocide of Christians(not only Armenians but Chaldeans and the orthodox of Smyrna),then it would follow that the Federal Republic of Germany is not responsible either for the extermination of the Jews by The Third Reich.
Why does the F.R. of Germany pay out billions in reparations to individual Jews and especially to the State of Israel? After all,the atrocity committed against Jews was done by something called The Third Reich under Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party,none of which exist today. Why are they giving so much money to Israel,a state which did not exist either at the time of the Jewish genocide?
By your reasoning,if Turkey owes no apology to Armenians,then the F.R. Germany owes nothing to Jews and still much less to Israel! *(I absolutely reject this vile reasoning by the way. It is mahal's,not mine!)

The Chaldean Christian population of Turkey was erradicated by violence all through the XIX century. The Armenians suffered similar attacks and the most effective and brutal of these took place during the years of WW I. The Orthodox Christians of Smyrna were also massacred. A particularly horrible incident took place in the harbour. British and U.S. ships were there to enforce the recently declared Treaty of Versailles which ended WW I. They stood by without intervening while thousands of women,children and old people were slaughtered before their eyes.

Turkey has never wanted to make a public admission of guilt the same way we have never made an official and public admission of the genocide that we committed against the native american indian tribes,especially all through the latter half of the XIX century when it was official policy to wage a war of extermination.

What would be served by making such public admissions? How about the TRUTH?
¨...and the Truth shall set thee free.¨

to Mr. BOBO(under me): War? What war? The Armenians had been living peacefully in Turkey for generations. They were a minority group.
BTW, did you know that your name means ¨stupid¨ in Spanish? I am sure it is just a coincidence.

To Katachiuski below: What is your argument? All the junk and pseudo historical publications that absolutely ¨prove¨ that the Jewish holocaust never took place are also in the same library and in others as well as such pathetic propaganda drivel as MEIN KAMPF. The Library of Congress tries to have a copy of everything that has ever been published. It's for reference. being in the L. of Congress doesn't mean something is true!

Add. note to ¨çetin¨ (that's a Turkish name,right?):
The Turkish forces defeated the ANZACS at the BATTLE of Gallipoli under the command of a general with a German name I can't recall just now,not Atatúrk.,although he was Military Governor of the Eastern provinces where the Armenians lived. However,Turkey lost that WAR and it was politic for Atatúrk to make such a speech of reconciliation when that happened in order to ingratiate himself with the western powers who had won. It is a fine speech as such things go and expresses sentiments one would have a hard time faulting. But, so what?

Andrew Mango,the Turkish born(Istanbul) historian who has written an admiring and laudatory biography of Atatúrk (ATATÚRK,FOUNDER OF MODERN TURKEY (2000) and has a Ph.d. in Oriental Studies and Persian and Arabic believes that he had a real problem with religion,especially Christianity and Islam. On the other hand,he left the relatively small group of Sephardic Jews in Turkey alone.

Atatúrk was trying to pull off a ¨cultural revolution¨ in the multicultural and multiethnic society of the Ottoman Empire. He basically wanted to drag Turkey into the modern secular 20th century and was not adverse to a lot of ethnic cleansing if that was what it took to do so.

If you are writing from Turkey then you are probably not used to this kind of debate because your laws prohibit you from saying anything against Atatúrk and mentioning the genocide. Your historians and journalists and writers who dare to use freedom of speech on this matter have been imprisoned and even assasinated! There are many brave people in your great country who would tell the truth here if they could. Too bad you are not one of them.

Answer 2

It is not enough that this country had not learned from Vietnam and Iraq, but now the House wants to re-write history concerning the Armenian Turkish conflict. The problem is, the West is trying to judge history with respect to its own historical and cultural references.Racism is a Western concept, which didn't have a place in Turkish or Ottoman history and the West cannot understand anti-racist Ottomans. Annihilation is a Western concept and the West cannot understand the Ottomans which chose to let live instead of wipe out. Assimilation is a Western concept and the West cannot accept the fact that different ethnic groups could live together. Mainstream Western understanding has given the word "culture" a specific meaning and does not understand culture beyond that. And it chooses to denigrate what it does not understand. The problem is, the last real empire that the West had was the Roman empire. Later so-called "empires" were only colonial formations, not real empires, and depended on exploitation and repression. Like Ilber Ortayli said, the last Roman type empire was the Ottoman empire. You can't really expect the (declining) Western powers to understand and appreciate something that is really different from their understanding of politics. That's like Americans appreciating Martian culture and politics. However while the House voted acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, it disregared the Azerbaijan Genocide of 1905-1907 by the Armenians. When will the House stop robbing Peter to pay Paul

Answer 3

There is a vast amount of evidence against the alleged Armenian Genocide. That is unlike the REAL holocaust where there was mountians of evidence trials and convictions, there is mountains of evidence which state that it was not an "Armenian Genocide" at all. The first place the US needs to look is in the Congress Library and the documents which exist there. Namely from a respected US Soldier and Diplomat Admiral Mark Bristol and I quote what he wrote all those years ago;-

"“The acts of the Armenian army at Kars absolutely disgusted our Americans…I am sure that the mass of people at home believe the Armenians are Christians in action and morals, and that they are able to govern themselves. You and I, and others that know them, know that this is not the case…CARDASHIAN IS CONSTANLY REPORTING ATROCITIES WHICH NEVER NEVER OCCURRED and giving endless MISINFORMATION with regard to the situation in Armenia and in Turkey….. (Armenians) are a peculiar people. They have a great faculty of making themselves disliked wherever they go...” "All the Americans in Kars are well, and the Turkish Army is full of concern for us and accords us all considerations. We have been given permission to continue our activities as before. The Turkish soldiers are well disciplined and there have been no massacres."
Edward Fox, District Commander N.E.R. Kars

""...The Turkish forces were far inferior to the Armenians, but the latter put up no fight and ran away in the most cowardly manner. The soldiers threw away their guns, stripped off their equipment, and hid in the hospitals and orphanages belonging to the Near East Relief Committee when the Turks entered Kars. There was hardly a shot fired from the Kars fortifications and there were no troops to withstand the advance of the Turks, who marched in as if on parade. The Armenian soldiers in many cases hid in the beds with sick children. The Turks in their advance into Armenia did not do any massacring..."

These documents are held at the US Congress Library for those that are interested.

Answer 4

Greg makes a good point!

When people were trying to dissuade Hitler from persecuting Jews and told him that History would revile him,he answered ¨But who remembers the Armenians?¨

Well I am glad that in 2007 there is still a little honor in the world and that WE ,as represented by our Congress, still remember the Armenians.

Otherwise there will come a time in the not too distant future when some despot or despotic government will say ¨Why not? Why not do this terrible thing we plan? After all? Who remembers the Jews? Who remembers Hitler?¨

Turkey,BTW,is not our ¨friend¨. Countries and states do not have friends. They have allies who need each other. Turkey needs us a hell of a lot more than we need them. I resent Turkey trying to blackmail us with their cheap threats. Turkey allied itself with us in the Cold War because they preferred to be in the Free World and on the receiving end of our handouts . The Cold War is OVER,folks, It has been over for some time. Time to rethink some alliances.

The Islamic government in Turkey today can not afford to let Turkey be of any strategic use to our troops in Iraq. They didn't allow us to move troops through in 2003 because they knew their population would lynch them.

It is ridiculous to argue that we have to placate Turkey and that our Congress can not exercise free speech because of fear of offending a country which is still receiving aid and which does damned little to justify it. Or are we paying them to recognise Israel and that's what the problem is? Is it really Israel that doesn't want us to hurt Turkey's sensitivities? WHEN ARE WE GOING TO HAVE OUR OWN FOREIGN POLICY AND NOT ALWAYS START JUMPING WHEN ISRAEL SAYS ¨JUMP!¨ ?

Answer 5

It was the OTTOMAN TURKS who killed a million and a half Armenians about 100 years ago.

In case you slept through history class, Turkey went through an extremely effective and impressive revolution under Kamal Attaturk. They're a totally different country now.

Congressional committees have way too much time on their hands when the pass resolutions like this. If they wanted to make a statement, why not condemn the Holocaust? More people died, and it actually has PRO-AMERICAN relavence: it would serve as a statement against Iran!

Answer 6

I protest that McDonald's is committing "Genocide" against cows by turning millions of cows into hamburgers.

It was a war and wars tend to have casualties on both sides.

For the record there was no Turkey as we know it today until 1923.

Is George Bush guilty of "Genocide" against the Baath party in Iraq.

Was America guilty of "Genocide" by dropping two atomic bombs on civilian populations in WWII


"Genocide" take a look at Darfur, Sudan and Myanamar. Don't just look back almost 100 years. Take a look and protest what is happening today, right now. Can "YOU" not see the mass killings, goining on here and now as "Genocide"

Answer 7

What happened over a hundred years ago is irrelevant.This has nothing to do with condemning genocide and everything to do with Politics.The Dems,in a desperate last ditch attempt to hurt the war effort,and thus increase their odds,decided to do this outrageous declaration to purposely strain our relations with a vital ally,Turkey.The surge appears to be working,the far left sites have been exposed,and are now a detriment,rather than an asset to the dems,as thedailykos and moveon are now simply organizations to be laughed at,they have no credibility left.They can't muster the CONSTITUTIONALLY mandated votes required to stop the war.So,in another,rather blatant act of treason,they pass this meaningless resolution that accomplishes precisely nothing other than strain relationships with vital allies.If that doesn't work,their last option will be to join al quaeda and fire on our troops themselves.They've done everything in their power to ensure America loses in Iraq.Despite that,we aren't.Their last chance is to become suicide bombers.What a treasonous lot.One should NEVER wish the defeat of America for political gain.That is plain sickening

Answer 8

hi ,
here are some books about so-called genocide.
please read these books , i hope help you!
-

1) Dashnagtzoution Has Nothing to Do Anymore
Author : Hovhannes Katchaznouni
ISBN No : 975-343-453-7

2) Le Parti Dachnak N'a Plus Rien A Faire
Author : Hovhannes Katchaznouni
ISBN No : 975-343-458-8

3) Für Die Dascnakzutyun Gibt Es Nichts Mehr Zu Tun
Author : Hovhannes Katchaznouni
ISBN No : 975-343-454-5

4) Die Konterrevolutionaere Rolle Der Daschnakzutjun Partei (1914-1923)
Author : A.A.Lalayan
ISBN No : 975-343-479-0
http://www.kaynakyayinlari.com/web/index.asp?ort=katgoster.asp&catid=118

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this is a free e-book:
"I witnessed and lived through 1917-1918"
author:Lt.col TVerdohlebof
-Russian commander of the 2.armenian-russian fortress artillery regionent.

http://www.divshare.com/download/358325-22b
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edit to GABRİELA!
what do you think about these sentences:

"The ill-fated Gallipoli campaign, which includes troops from the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (the ANZACs), results in the deaths of over 200,000 Triple Entente soldiers for no effective gain. It is abandoned by the Triple Entente in the autumn.

The Turkish victory has come at the cost of about 253,000 lives.

Referring to the campaign, Atatürk later says, "Indeed, it was not easy to shoulder such responsibility, but as I had decided not to live to see my country's destruction, I accepted it proudly."

In tribute to the enemy troops killed at Gallipoli he writes, "Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side now here in this country of ours. ... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land. They have become our sons as well."

Answer 9

Decode this lyrics " Woman in love"
At loss and blurr on what the Liberation of Freedom for the good of mankind from after world war two were all about?
Exodus 20.1-2, Leviticus 26.13
Decode this lyrics " The young one"
"Children are to be seen and not to be heard" were busy in digging up graveyards of the past?
Luke 9.60
Decode this lyrics " Woman"
Ever wonder who were getting the " Dirty old men" into trouble with the loss of peace on earth goodwill to men?
1 Timothy 2.9-15,
Titus 2.3-5
What do you think?

Answer 10

look honey,we see the tragedy but its not called genocide,because our soldiers didnt kill any armenians you are so cruel about this.
If Armenians gathered with russians attacked your citizens(Armenians,Kurdish,Turks,Greeks) what would u do? Hee,tell me???

u would send them travel by force or kill them all? No we would never kill them all so we make them travel aboard turkish lands so that the threat will end.Because A turkish never kills an enemy,by their believes and their cultures.How dare u guilt us,us i mean Turks that has given water to a dying enemy soldier during the war(Kamal Ataturk)? yeah Read some Ottoman Empire History honey before guilting us.We have sent them about like about 300.000 armenians but most of them died on road,ı know its tragedy and im sad about the dying armenians but this must be done.Innocent Armenians paid for allying with russians and attacking our cities and citizens with their lives.When Armenian-Mafias allied with russians attacked our cities and citizens,200.000-400.000 citizens died!!! why dont anyone talk about that? yeah i know because if u talk about our losses u wouldnt support the so-called Armenian-Genocide.Why dont u talk about Turkish-Genocide happened in the area? Didnt like it honey,did u???

for those who believes Turks didnt make genocide i respect u,because in war everything can happen.Didnt French kill Algerians? Didnt Armenians kill Azerbaijani in Hocalı???

why dont we call these as genocide but calling Turks sending Armenians aboard during the war as so-called genocide?
What is that? Cant understand!!

our relationship with Americans is planning to be broken by some money-maniacs,which we are allies since 60's,greatest ally with America like England and Israel too.Well i still hope USA government will clean the terrorists out of Iraq and this will be good for Iraq,Turkey,USA and middle-east...

Answer 11

More importantly why was it necessary for the Democrats to insult one of our greatest allies with an ancient history lesson. I do not deny that the incident was a tragedy but how many people in power today had anything to do with it.

Why do the American leftists feel that it acceptable to paint all of the Turkish people as murders. Especially a group of people that has been so supportive of the United States for so many years,

If there are any Turkish Nationals out there please know that it is a small group of of power hungry politicians who are defaming you. The majority of Americans appreciate all of the great things that the Turkish people have done for us over the years. Thank You!!!!!!