Is fear of global warming really about the fear of ones own mortality?

Question

I was talking to a friend about global warming (or climate change since they can’t keep the name straight since it keeps going against the predictions) who I never took for an alarmist and the argument he kept bringing up was the fact that if all the things they predict come to pass, then his life and the life of his family was in peril. I asked him as a historian how he could even presume that humans would die out because of dramatic climate, since Humans had lived though countless climate changes in the past. He agreed that Humanity would survive but he was more afraid of what would happen to him.

Then I went and read some of the questions and answers on this site and I see a startling pattern… They usually have to do with the person’s own survival and not the actual future of mankind.

Now my friend is a really brilliant person and I know that he is very logical and rational, but he was genuinely afraid of dieing… Is that what keeps people sticking with this theory?

Personally I know Global warming to be sunk since I can disprove it with geological, historical and archeological evidence and I am not concerned with my own mortality after all every one dies. But is that what keeps people hanging on? The fear of death and the possibility of maybe extending one’s life (even if you can’t prove that it did)?

Is this some kind of bizarre quest for a fountain of youth?

soulsearcher: Want proof? Ok... The "Little ice age" 1300ad-1800ad. Severe climate change that was recorded by several sources, prior to 1300 grapes were grown in England, grapes require certain conditions. Within a 10 year period the climate changes so dramatically that the country could not grow grapes, it has ont been in the last couple of decades that conditions are favorable for grapes again in England. This was 1300 ad... that’s before the industrial revolution and it happened at an amazing and noticeable speed.

Would you like more proof?

Time: read my above comment on proof, I would gladly mention more if you like. Now wait…you say that the bodies of water are receding, but so is the ice coverage……….. You don’t find this at all bizarre? Where is the water going if bodies of water are receding and so are the ice caps? Somewhere your argument seems to have a few faults, don’t you think?

By the way you said “Modern history” you do realize there was history before us right? Its called geology and even that shows dramatic and sudden climate changes, I mean after all Arizona is no longer a swamp is it?

Time: look it up if you don't believe me. The grape harvests dried up in less than 20 years... LESS than 20 years, the change was so noticeable that the church investigated, they claimed it was witchcraft and burned a number of people at the steak for cursing the weather, does that sound like something that happened so slow no one noticed?

You want more? Ok, Persia had been fertile land then dried up suddenly 6000 years aog, there is archeological proof.

North Africa was the place where nearly all the grain and foodstuffs eaten in Europe flowed from during the times of the Roman Empire, now the land is almost desolate and that was by the time of napoleon.

Please feel free to look up anything I said and disprove me.

Afeasf: actually humans have gone though at least 2 major ice ages and up to 3 mini-ice ages. Geological evidence has proven it.

Jennifer: Thank you for bringing me back to the point. It is not really about my friend but his response, and the response I have seen countless times when People discuss global warming, it is a fear of their own death, he just made me pay closer attention to it.

BTW Millions of Billion of animals have perished long before Humans were involved. It's a part of evolution.

Answer 1

I admire and will continue to admire your questions and answers, and hope we can agree to disagree on this hot-button issue and still be friends.

I have no kids and don't know if I intend to so my own mortality bothers me litte. Especially since I lived over 30 years with untreated ADD. Death would be a cakewalk in comparison.

Why, then, should I be concerned with the possibility that we humans, collectively, may have the power to impact our climate? I'm concerned for the same reason a parent wonders if a kid will make decisions that will haunt him/her in later years.

I think people see climate change/global warming as either a doomsday tale or an Al Gore publicity stunt (I see the latter, myself). I see it thru the Ben Franklin quote:

"It is not until the well runs dry, that we know the worth of water."

I respect all the scientific data, I love Michael Crichton's books, and respect the opinions of them all. I'm smart enough to know that they're a lot smarter than I am and know more than I'll ever grasp.

Crichton insists Global Warming isn't real as do many in the scientific community. Many others argue that it IS real.

All I know is that, living in Asia, I saw mountains raized, rivers witnout fish, car-density go from very few to multi-city traffic jams, air thick enough with pollution that a brief scooter ride would darken a face with smoke, and so on.

It increased and worsened till the island was nearly unliveable. Finally, the people, through local and national leaders began a rush to clean things up. They did well.

I don't think we're as powerless over this little planet as we'd like to think. To believe we are is also a fear of mortality as it would imply the possibility that we could destroy ourselves.

As I read Genisis, I see that the "dominion over all things" promise applied ONLY until the fall of man. After that...?

On this topic, I think we're better off safe than sorry.

Answer 2

personally I don't see it about Me or my mortality at all .. I'm really not that significant ( NOR IS ANYBODY ELSE FOR THAT MATTER) ,... I think your friend has AN ISSUE.

to me this is about about the highly probably extinction of many other species of both flora and fauna FIRSTLY AND FOREMOST... which is really bloody sad GIVEN that Humans are the ones that have screwed up the planet.

Secondly ... from the humanity side of things .. well we might just be headed for famine on a Biblical scale ..and that will result in more tension and bloodshed and wars, as people( nations) fight over any arable land ... from a NON-HUMAN perspective MAYBE that would be the absolute BEST thing for this planet in the sense that we might cull ourselves off to a less destroying number.. and therefore give the rest of nature a fighting chance....

It isn't about me, it isn't about you and it most certainly ISN'T about your friend .. No offence to him.

EDIT: ... No worries re bringing you back to the point ...

NOW let's drag you away from it again :) ...
I KNOW that there have always been extinctions... and I know that IT is evolution .. BUT largely due to natural occuring events .. .AND YES .. .I acknowledge that there has ALWAYS been climate changes that has resulted in the extinction of many species.....

I WILL never say that climate change is a result of man ... but WHAT i will say .. is that the RATE of climate change can be massively put down to Mankind.. and NO I have not been brainwashed by Al Gore or any other Greenie .. what I have done is observed and considered ....

We NOW live on a planet that has LESS vegetation than it has had for millions of years.....
We have an Animal that mines and clears and ommits at a rate THAT no other animal has ever done before AND we don't have that Vegetation to counteract what we are doing ... THE BALANCE has gone if you like ....
THERE has to be SOME scaring from what we are doing ... and that's where it is different to previous extinctions taking place .. and the thing is here it's happening at such a rate .. .that we WILL suffer as a result .. great big holes out of the food chain... food sources that will no longer be able to be obtained ETC..

Anyway ... this is a conversation that is out of place ( lol Given the question was about your friends attitude..., forgive the diversion ... ) but one that is VERY interesting which ever side you elect to stand with :)

Answer 3

Interesting! I have no clue what keeps people hanging on.

I have a serious question that everyone should think about. Over the past year I have read several reports for British and American mainstream science sources that not only is the Earth heating up but so are the other planets. So why is this not front page news along with the articles about man made global warming?


I personally like to have a well rounded perspective on the subject. What is the point of going crazy or jumping on any bandwagon? I have ridden the fence on this for along time and continue to do so. I'm not a scientist by any means but there is still to much evidence that makes this debate go both ways.

Answer 4

No, it's not a bizarre quest. However, you have a uniquely defined bizarre personality trait known as "Knowledge without Evidence".

So, your statement holds little to no water with me.

Fact: the climate is changing. I believe highly detailed pictorial evidence is showing a number of bodies of water reducing in size (the Great Lakes as one recent example was pointed out). Not to mention this "scare" about the lowest ice coverage the arctic has seen, EVER, in modern history.

Fact: man is spewing exponentially greater amounts of "crap" into the air. Seriously, you take this to be a good thing?

Anyways, I'm not scared for my own mortality. That's just stupid. I'm worried about less snow and shortened ski seasons.

In the end, the sun will swell in size, and swallow this planet whole.

However, long before that happens, humanity as we know it will have destroyed itself.

Who knows? Maybe a far more peaceful, intelligent life form will inherit the Earth and manage to branch out to other potential homes in the Universe.

EDIT:

I'm a little sad about the whole thing, and yeah, I have two daughters....I'm worried about the challenges they will face. But if it wasn't global warming, or climate change, or whatever new term comes up, it will be global war, floods, earthquakes, and lead pain on toys from China.

EDIT:

The little ice age? That's the best you got?

Yes, we all learned in grade school about the Earth warming up and cooling down in cycles. That's not a surprise.

What the SCIENTISTS are concerned about is the unprecedented, and VERY noticeable effects that have occurred within the last 100 years, or even less.

The little ice age occurred over a period of thousands, tens of thousands, years.

We are talking about a very, very short time period. Definitely not a "glacial pace" as one person is believing.

Answer 5

lol - thank you, thank you, thank you.

I fully agree. Global Warming is akin to the ghost stories we used to tell as kids.

EDIT: It has been successfully challenged in a UK court and their findings follow -

* The film claims that melting snows on Mount Kilimanjaro evidence global warming. The Government's expert was forced to concede that this is not correct.
* The film suggests that evidence from ice cores proves that rising CO2 causes temperature increases over 650,000 years. The Court found that the film was misleading: over that period the rises in CO2 lagged behind the temperature rises by 800-2000 years.
* The film uses emotive images of Hurricane Katrina and suggests that this has been caused by global warming. The Government's expert had to accept that it was "not possible" to attribute one-off events to global warming.
* The film shows the drying up of Lake Chad and claims that this was caused by global warming. The Government's expert had to accept that this was not the case.
* The film claims that a study showed that polar bears had drowned due to disappearing arctic ice. It turned out that Mr Gore had misread the study: in fact four polar bears drowned and this was because of a particularly violent storm.
* The film threatens that global warming could stop the Gulf Stream throwing Europe into an ice age: the Claimant's evidence was that this was a scientific impossibility.
* The film blames global warming for species losses including coral reef bleaching. The Government could not find any evidence to support this claim.
* The film suggests that the Greenland ice covering could melt causing sea levels to rise dangerously. The evidence is that Greenland will not melt for millennia.
* The film suggests that the Antarctic ice covering is melting, the evidence was that it is in fact increasing.
* The film suggests that sea levels could rise by 7m causing the displacement of millions of people. In fact the evidence is that sea levels are expected to rise by about 40cm over the next hundred years and that there is no such threat of massive migration.
* The film claims that rising sea levels has caused the evacuation of certain Pacific islands to New Zealand. The Government are unable to substantiate this and the Court observed that this appears to be a false claim.

"In order for the film to be shown, the Government must first amend their Guidance Notes to Teachers to make clear that 1.) The Film is a political work and promotes only one side of the argument. 2.) If teachers present the Film without making this plain they may be in breach of section 406 of the Education Act 1996 and guilty of political indoctrination. 3.) Eleven inaccuracies have to be specifically drawn to the attention of school children."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/09/court-identifies-eleven-inaccuracies-al-gore-s-inconvenient-truth

Why do libs continually refuse to acknowledge the real TRUTH?

Answer 6

The left has been pushing the same agenda for 40 years. They find a new rationale every decade, but their vision of some neo-agrarian utopia is constant.

You're right humans will adapt to global warming. The effect will be much less severe than those prophesied by Gore and co., and will occur at a glacial, rather than a hurricane pace.

the only real solution to global warming is nuclear energy. We should explore geothermal, wind and solar energy (as well as the US military's plan to pull energy from solar collectors in space), but none will have the reliability or capacity to replace fossil fuels. Nuclear energy will have to pick up the slack.

Answer 7

My biggest fear with global warming is that human activity will push the natural processes so far out of whack that they aren't able to maintain a stable enough environment to support life. It's obvious with all of the controversy with global warming that we don't know enough to say for certain that that won't happen.

By the way, how can past climate change events prove that this one isn't getting a boost from irresponsible human activity?

Answer 8

wow, your friend is pretty gullable...there hasn't been countless climate changes...we went through 1 ice age and we're supposed to be setting up for another according to the syncrony of the Milankovich cycle but instead of cooling down globally we're warming up and man-made emissions are to blame...scientists don't come to conclusions because of their morals, they deduce information from proven research techniques.

Answer 9

The fact that its a fact keeps everyone hanging on, and if you can disprove it, please come forward, because no one else can!

Answer 10

No