How come "4" in Roman numerals can also be IIII instead of IV?

Question

I noticed this on a clock at a shopping center in my neighborhood as well as a few grandfather clocks. Four is IIII instead of IV. Does that mean that any Roman numeral that has a four in it (e.g. 14, 24, 34) can have four I's instead of a IV? Also, 2 remain consistent, wouldn't "nine" be VIIII?

Hmm. Fascin8n' stuff, especially yours, Tenn Gal! Apparently this seems 2 b relevant w/ clocks & there's some aesthetic approach 2 displaying the Roman numerals on the clock faces. & there's quite a rich history in the significance of the quadruple vertical bars where "the Sun King" had a say 2 this. Good stuff, yall! Keep 'em coming!

Answer 1

All of the explanations I've read are incorrect.

It's actually only on clock faces that you see "IV" written as "IIII". It's still wrong, as some people pointed out, but there's a story behind this.

The reason why clocks have this has nothing to do with symmetry, as somebody else said (or somebody else seemed to blindy copy from a website without listing the source). It's actually because when these clocks were built in public, there were a lot of poor people who'd read the clock, and it was felt that they would make more sense of "IIII" than "IV".

Answer 2

Isn't it amazing how many people 'know' that all clocks have IV and IIII doesn't exist? They just can't be bothered to look at a damn clockface. Almost all clocks that have Roman numerals have IIII for 4. I admit to having seen one with IV once, but that really is rare. The convention for clocks is IIII. Check it out, you people! But then perhaps you can't spell 4 in Roman. I seem to remember that it was the preference of a French king, so blakenyp has probably come up with the right answer.

Answer 3

This Site Might Help You.

RE:
How come "4" in Roman numerals can also be IIII instead of IV?
I noticed this on a clock at a shopping center in my neighborhood as well as a few grandfather clocks. Four is IIII instead of IV. Does that mean that any Roman numeral that has a four in it (e.g. 14, 24, 34) can have four I's instead of a IV? Also, 2 remain consistent, wouldn't...

Answer 4

Iiii On Clocks

Answer 5

Representation of numbers in Roman system is by way of addition and subtraction. In 'IV' I means 1 and V means 5. I in front of V means 1 to be subtracted from V. Similarly, IIII means 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4. X means 10 and IX means 9 ( 1 subtracted from 10). IV is mostly used to represent 4. In decimal system also, 4 can be written as 1+3 or 3+1 or 2+2 or 5-1. But as there is a specific symbol for 4, it is mostly used to represent 4.
Refer to the link in source list for more information.

Answer 6

the answer is as simple as the question. no matter how many "l"s you have in a row, you can always count them and it is what every number equals the amount, so before there was IV and XI there was IIII and IIIIIIIIIIII. Now the need to not right that many "I"s spawned other symbolism such as X and L and M and C, the I was more insignificant and thus likely remained IIII or IIIIIIIII. When the V was developed it didn't make the IIII obsolete because everyone can easily see the 4 marks as meaning 4, easier than IV. So both continue to be used interchangeably.

Answer 7

Clock faces that are labelled using Roman numerals conventionally show IIII for four o'clock and IX for nine o'clock, using the subtractive principle in one case and not the other. There are many suggested explanations for this, several of which may be true:

The four-character form IIII creates a visual symmetry with the VIII on the other side, which IV would not.
With IIII, the number of symbols on the clock totals twenty I's, four V's, and four X's, so clock makers need only a single mold with a V, five I's, and an X in order to make the correct number of numerals for their clocks: VIIIIIX. This is cast four times for each clock and the twelve required numerals are separated:
V IIII IX
VI II IIX
VII III X
VIII I IX
The IIX and one of the IX’s are rotated 180° to form XI and XII. The alternative with IV uses seventeen I's, five V's, and four X's, possibly requiring the clock maker to have several different molds.
IIII was the preferred way for the ancient Romans to write four, since they to a large extent avoided subtraction.
As noted above, it has been suggested that since IV is the first two letters of IVPITER (Jupiter), the main god of the Romans, it was not appropriate to use.
Only the I symbol would be seen in the first four hours of the clock, the V symbol would only appear in the next four hours, and the X symbol only in the last four hours. This would add to the clock's radial symmetry.
IV is difficult to read upside down and on an angle, particularly at that location on the clock.
Louis XIV, king of France, preferred IIII over IV, ordered his clockmakers to produce clocks with IIII and not IV, and thus it has remained.

Chemistry
As it relates to the nomenclature of inorganic compounds, only IV should be used. For example MnO2 should be named manganese (IV) oxide; manganese (IIII) oxide is unacceptable.

Answer 8

IIII is not roman numeral, if you see this, it is wrong, The correct way to say 4 is IV.

Answer 9

That's only used in making clocks. The reason the number four is put on a clock using four "I's" instead of an "IV" is to balance out the number 8 on the face. You notice that 8 appears as "VIII". It looks rather unbalanced if the four appears the correct way so that's why the "IIII's" are used instead.

Answer 10

I have been told that clocks use it to visually balance the VIII on one side with the IIII other. Apparently Romans didn't much care how you wrote it.