Problems with suffering, choose one and explain why please?

Question

1. God gives us suffering as punishment?
problems: Conflicts with the idea of an all loving God.
If you try to apply this to moral evil then you will loose free will.
2. God gives us suffering to test our faith?
problems: conflicts with our idea of an all loving God.
Apply to moral evil, loose free will.
3. God gives us suffering to help us learn, to teach us lessons?
problems: Challenges all loving God.
Moral evil-loose free will.
4. We are creatures with free will thus we will make choices that cause suffering for ourselves and others?
problems: applies only to suffering cause by moral choices.
Challenges the idea of an all loving God.
5. Nature operates according to the laws of nature?
problems: Applies to physical/mental/natural suffering and finitude. But it doesn't apply to moral choices. Does not have a God that applies to nature. God does not intervein.
Challenges the idea of an all powerful God because he does not intervien with nature.

6. God suffers with us.

Barb hunny, religion and philosophy
are one in the same.

Answer 1

4. We are creatures with free will thus we will make choices that cause suffering for ourselves and others?
problems: applies only to suffering cause by moral choices.
Challenges the idea of an all loving God.

I would disagree with the second part of your argument on this.

While I do not know or have a hard time guessing at why God created mankind I think the ultimate goal of humanity (note, goal, not destiny) is to ascend to a point where we are physically, spiritually, and emotionally like God. Some would call this becoming one with God, but as that to me seems like it would entail a loss of self I prefer to think of it as individual ascension that happens on a wide scale. However, while God is benevolent and merciful the point of our task is to be found worthy of such power (and it is power). As such God cannot just fast forward us all to a point where we are ready for this (why create us in the first place then?) but God also cannot just make the way easy for us because having power and being worthy of it are two different things. We have to show that we are responsible enough to have that power and to use it wisely.

Currently, human beings could eradicate most life on this planet. Some people would be willing to go that far to bring about the Rapture which they think would be a good thing. But wouldn't it show more responsibility to live peacefully with your neighbors and the environment? The Rapture would supposedly bring one closer to God, but in the process you would destroy the creation that God made, seems rather silly doesn't it?

God does not interfere because our path is one of self discovery and learning. If we are to attain that pinicale of being then God must allow us to reach it on our own or else we learn no lessons. The ultimate benevolence of God is that the deity has allowed us our own choice and will grant us that status, but only if we are worthy. The way is through compassion and understanding of our neighbors and the world around us. This approach sees God as a parent or a teacher and both of those types of people want to see their children/students grow up to become their equals, but they also know that the student cannot reach that point without learning some hard lessons that the teacher can guide and assist them on, but the student must complete the lesson themselves.

Answer 2

1. God gives us suffering as punishment?
problems: Conflicts with the idea of an all loving God.
If you try to apply this to moral evil then you will loose free will.
- suffering is a direct result of our abuse of free will, which God gave. Since God loves us, he wants us to become better. The best way to become better is through experience. We learn from suffering and pain so we won't do things that cause such.

2. God gives us suffering to test our faith?
problems: conflicts with our idea of an all loving God.
Apply to moral evil, loose free will.
- nope. as discussed above, suffering is a consequence of our
abuse of free will.

3.God gives us suffering to help us learn, to teach us lessons?
problems: Challenges all loving God.
Moral evil-loose free will.
- God allows us to suffer to help us learn. This does not challege the concept of an all loving God. Here's an analogy: How would a baby learn to stand and walk if he won't fall? If the parents would always help the baby walk or carry him, that baby will never learn to walk.

4. We are creatures with free will thus we will make choices that cause suffering for ourselves and others?
problems: applies only to suffering cause by moral choices.
Challenges the idea of an all loving God.
- this is the right mindset. Example: Your neighbor bought a new mp3 player which you like but cannot afford. And then, at the right moment, you stole it. It is your free will to steal it. This made your neighbor feel so bad. So bad he had a heart attack. Get the idea?

5. Nature operates according to the laws of nature?
problems: Applies to physical/mental/natural suffering and finitude. But it doesn't apply to moral choices. Does not have a God that applies to nature. God does not intervein.
Challenges the idea of an all powerful God because he does not intervien with nature.
- The earth is God's gift to man. Thus, man has the free will to decide what he wants to do to the earth. And now, because of this free will, we are suffering from the effects of the destruction of nature: floods, green house effects, pollution which has affected our respiratory system, etc. In as much as God may like to intervene, a lot of people have already turned their backs on him, questioning him and his existence. There are times where in he may have already intervened but we still attribute it to other possibilities.

Answer 3

I'm going to pick number 4. I don't believe that God would have created suffering for any purpose. But I disagree that it only applies to moral choices. Its not just moral choices. Everything we do affects ourselves and others. Even brushing our teeth. If we don't, it causes other peoples suffering. Point being that we make decisions other than moral ones. We unconsciously choose things sometimes as well. we don't really think about it, we just do it, not realizing the affect it may have on others. On top of that, even if we suffer from something, free will combined with gods love and forgiveness gives us the chance to forgive the thing or person who caused the suffering, even if it's ourselves. As well as giving us the courage it takes to heal and move on. So it really doesn't challenge the idea of an all loving God. God is there catch us when we fall and put us back on track. God allows us to have free will so we can learn things for ourselves. Yes we may fumble but there is the beauty of it all. God wants us to know that no matter where our free will leads us, he will always be there for us no matter what.

Answer 4

1. God doesn't punish us with suffering, or at least not anymore, thats more of a Old Testament thing
2. If your life was perfect would there be any need for God? omething; to be told and to be shown. The latter is more effective, and the one God uses. God never made anyone make you suffer, he just uses it to his advantage.
4. Not all choices end up in suffering, some do. The ones that we do we just have to deal with it whether we like it or not, and God will be right there whether you want him to or not.
5. Why would God need to intervene with nature. He set the world in action just the way he wanted to at the beginning of time. (Like a wind up car, you only have to wind it up once, then it goes as you want it to. You don't wind it up while its moving (sorry this is the best analogy I could come up with))
-God isn't all loving by not letting us suffer, hes all loving because the instant we screwed up, we were doomed, but he was merciful in not punishing us, then graceful in giving us a second chance.
It sounds a lot like your jumping to conclusions.
Seriously though, go to the local church and ask the pastor about these things, I'm sure he/she would be more than happy to answer you, and I bet they could do a better job than I did.
If you want to see real suffering go to http://www.invisiblechildren.com/

Answer 5

If God is an all loving, all powerful, all knowing God, then God cannot be the cause of suffering. You choose....is God all powerful or the cause/indifferent to suffering? That doesn't mean that a 'devil' is the cause either, of course, b/c a loving, all powerful God would clearly have knowledge and power over any other being. I don't believe that any God worth worshipping and loving could be capable/desire that we suffer or are tested at his will. That doesn't sound like any God I would want to follow. The following book was good and helpful. good luck!

Answer 6

When I am in an foxhole, I pray to God in hopes of intervention, but without expectations. I don't try to rationalize any beliefs about God in my foxhole. I just make two assumptions: one) there is a God of "some" kind. two) I can't expect s/he/it to come to my personal help. (Children die of cancer and all sorts of other things every day so I can't have expectations, even tho it still fells good in my foxhole to pray.)

When I am not in a foxhole, feeling myself, which is more of a cosmic oneness with all that is, I feel myself part of the Universe, capital U, and feel that wonderful feeling of feeling connected to everything

When my life is off-balance and things are very askew, I turn to ritual, earth-connection, using things like my altar with symbols that feel powerful to me. It helps me stay grounded during a confused time.

Somehow, all 3 of these co-exist without a problem, and I am thankful that I have a variety of ways to connect, depending on what's happening.

Answer 7

1. God does not give suffering nor punishment. God gives us fire to cook and keep warm. We use it to burn our neighbor's house or to collect Insurance.
God is not 'all loving' - in the meaning that s/he can be bribed, influenced or deceived - unless we mean that because god is all loving he gave every -one land to live, food to eat, water to drink
and the brains to increase our quality and quantity of life. -
the fallacy is that it is woman/man who controls the water, controls food-production restricts/wastes/deprives water, controls/divides/owns the land and creates wars in the name of patriotism, religion, politics, and anything else.
We have to clearly distinguish between what god gives and what humans take/do.
Then there is no conflict.
The conflict being we give attributes to god - why did god give petroleum to some countries and gold to other countries?
He gave gold to American Indians but the European settlers not only took away the land but also complain about the oil.
If clarity comes in our life we can understand what god gave and what god is - and what man/woman gave and what they took.

Answer 8

This body of our is made of perishable material. Like all other perishable material this is tend to perish. When we forget this fact we think of sufferings, If a human makes a toy which perishes,we do not think it is suffering. Soul wants to enjoy this materialistic arrangement and in the course of this enjoyment, this material he is enjoying perishes and he feels he is suffering. Material is taking its course and soul or spirit is just onlooker. It does not suffer. So where does the blame comes for the Crater.

Answer 9

What would really happen if u chose to challenge God and run with free will?

Answer 10

Religion and philosophy do not mix well.
However, I will say that bad things happen to everyone-but they usually happen more frequently to people who make bad moral choices.