okay, southerners...school me?

Question

i just saw an f-150 (of course) with a bumper sticker with the confederate flag on it and it said "if you find this offensive you need a history lesson" ...wtf? i need to know the thinking here, people. the confederate flag--i don't care if it was a state flag before it was used in the civil war. it represented the confederacy in the war and one of their big grievances with the north was they did not want to abolish slavery. so get over it..it is offensive to see a symbol of pro slavery being waved around proudly. please, someone who disagrees tell me why i am wrong. don't just insult me and call me ignorant or stupid--tell me why i should think otherwise. cause personally i am deeply offended by the sight of the "stars and bars" and i am not even black! i can only imagine how they must feel seeing that disgrace. it's like the swastika. that used to be used by like the templars as their symbol and the bhuddists used it too, to represent their sun god--but would you fly it today? NO!

Answer 1

I've been sitting here trying to decide whether and how to answer your question.

First, let's talk about symbols. Symbolism is very subjective; it isn't so much what's actually in front of you as what you see. So, one person might see a symbol that represents an individual soldier, while another sees a symbol reflecting a corrupt regime. Take the U.S. flag; it means something different to me than it means to someone living on the West Bank. During the height of the flag-burning debate (about 1990?), people said things like, "Soldiers died for that flag during WWII." Well, no, they didn't; when you come down to it, a flag is a design on fabric. What you feel about it reflects what you bring to your observation.

Folks, it is disingenuous to say that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery. This is like saying a person with lung cancer died from pneumonia. It just isn't true. Also, what difference does it make whether slavery was dying out? The states' rights/self-determination aspects of the conflict were inspired by slavery. One question was whether slavery should be contained in the south or allowed to expand into other territories; South Carolina and other states seceded because they were afraid the Northern antislavery Republicans (whose leader, Abraham Lincoln, had just been elected President) would interfere in slavery. The federal government had already outlawed bringing more slaves in from Africa, so they did have some justification. However, it should be noted that they were afraid the federal government would interfere specifically with slavery, not with some fuzzy notion of "our way of life."

Also, the Confederacy had its own constitution. It was a lot like the U.S. constitution except it "protected and recognized" slavery in the new territories, and it also stressed that each state was sovereign and independent. As it turned out, the second provision made it more difficult to fight the war. Again, the twin causes of the civil war: states rights and slavery.

So, what is this "southern way of life" everyone gets so excited about? To be truthful, I think it's more of a reaction to the Industrial Revolution. In the North, there were railroads and factories which were causing economic growth. In the South, there were still mostly farms, and less economic growth. People who owned slaves also owned large homes; their children were often tended by slave women who had been forced to give up their own children. Most Southerners looked down on factories and factory workers (with good reason, as factories were filthy, overcrowded, and workers badly treated); also, their capital was tied up in land and slaves so even if they wanted to build a factory, they couldn't. I don't truthfully know what else is supposed to distinguish the Southern way of life; churchgoing and respecting elders and so forth were ideals of 19th century America everywhere.

So, I do apologize for the stream-of-consciousness approach I have taken with your question. I am also offended by the display of the Confederate flag, since it seems to me that it celebrates wealth that was built on black labor and lives. But that's just what I see. I'm offended by other things, too, like people not saying "excuse me" when they step on my foot, or refusing to use standard English spelling and punctuation, when they know better. Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Answer 2

Is there even a question here? Agreed with the above answerer. While slavery was a big part of the Old South, it was not the primary motivator for the Civil War, and it was NOT why South Carolina seceded. While I don't necessarily agree with continuing to fly the Confederate flag, and think that most of the people who do are buying into an image that isn't necessarily the way I'd like my state to be represented (I'm from Kentucky, by the way), you have to understand that Southern pride is deeply ingrained in the culture. The Confederate flag, like any symbol, represents different things to different people, and, whatever your opinion on the history of it, our country was founded on several basic principles. If you'll remember, the FIRST ammendment is freedom of speech. That freedom includes the ability to fly whatever flag or symbol you wish. You may find it offensive, but I assure you that most of the people who fly that flag do not advocate slavery, and I'm getting a bit sick of people saying that was the central issue of the Civil War, and the only defining characteristic of Southern culture.

Answer 3

Reading the various answers (as well as the question) it makes me wonder what is taught for history in the schools.

First, a small lesson about flags. What you refer to as the ‘Stars and Bars’ was never a State flag. It existed in two forms, one used as a navy battle flag and one as a land battle flag.

If you find it offensive then you do need a history lesson, because it represented the men who fought in battles and as such was little different from the regimental flags used by Union troops. For these individuals such battles with which they were involved had nothing to do with slavery. This is true for those who fought on either side. To understand this it might help if you looked into the 50 year anniversary of the battle of Gettysburg. I believe that you would find that those veterans who attended that event would find your opinion truly sad and that would include those from the Union side.

Certainly there those who were concerned about slavery prior to the war. For many, North and South, such concern existed prior even to the Articles of Confederation, however, to conclude that such concern is the cause of the American War of the 1860s, is a significant mistake.

If you would read such things as the Federalist Papers; the Anti-Federalist Papers; the Madison notes of the debates during the convention; and Elliot’s Debates (covering the constitutional ratification debates), you will find that the primary issues was the relationship between the powers of the federal government (as created from within the Constitution) and the powers of the States. Further, you will find that this issue came close to not allowing the ratification of the Constitution, thus maintaining the absolute free, independent, and sovereign nature of the States (as agree to in Article One of the 1783 Treaty of Peace signed by the States under the Articles of Confederation.)

Although it would seem that this issue would end with the ratification of the Constitution of the United States, however, such an assumption was far from the truth. The issue continued to be debated in such things as the Kentucky Resolution (written by Thomas Jefferson); the Virginia Resolution (written by James Madison); court cases such as McCulloch v. Maryland and XXXX v. Ogden (both decided by the John Marshall court); the 1828 Exposition (written by Vice President John C. Calhoun) as well as many other acts.

By the time of the 1860 presidential campaign it was clear that issue of constitutional division of power between the federal government and the States demonstrated that the intent of the Founders had been subverted into developing a strong general government without the use of the amendment process. In other words those supporting a strong federal government inclusive of infringement on State and individual powers and rights was winning by subverting the Constitution. While it might have been possible to work this out without a war, the States had no choice (and every constitutional right to secede from the Union and form a new country.

Slavery was quite definitely not the major or causative issue to cause a war. The Southern Battle Flag represents a lost cause of fighting for States rights, not for the institution of slavery.

Answer 4

I am proud to be from Georgia and get sick of people including govonor Barnes saying the State flag is racist. Are the same people going to listen to the Indians who say the American flag is offensive since we slaughtered them and took their land? How about the indentured Chinese who built the railroad thru the west? Please, I had no more to do with slavery, fighting the civil war, etc than I had putting Apollo on the moon. Quit trying to say that southerners are bigots, racists, and slow. I'm proud Georgia was a state willing to stand up to what it thought was unfair laws and a changing constitution to please the North. Enough said.....

Answer 5

You are misinformed. One of the biggest grievances the South had with the North was not about abolishing slavery! Not at all.

Slavery in the South was dying a natural death. Many Southerners no longer owned slaves. Of those who still did, many had arranged to free their slaves upon their death.

The cause of the Civil War was that Southern pride took umbrage to Northern interference in trying to tell them how they should, and should not, live their lives.

The bumper sticker was right -- you do need a history lesson.

Answer 6

Uh, maybe history lessons have changed since i was in school (other thn the space stuff), but I was taught that the major difference between North and South was the never-ending quandry about states' rights vs. strong central govt.

Answer 7

It seems to me that many people in the south refuse to accept the fact that the Confederacy was not a nice organization. At worst it represented racism and slavery. At best it represented seceding from the Union just because they didn't get their way.

So really if you display the stars and bars for any reason other than historical appreciation you are either saying you approve of slavery, or that you disapprove of the USA.

But as one man has often been quoted: "the south will rise again". So I think there are people out there that still can't admit they lost.

Answer 8

I do not think you are stupid or ignorant! I agree with you 100% it ticks me off everytime I see one and I see it often because I do live in the south(kentucky).. It has gotten so bad that in one of the cities(african americans do not even go to that town) has made a law if you are caught with a flag you will be fined up to $1,000... I am actually grateful.. I do not own one nor will I ever

Answer 9

Its called freedom of speech. Deal with it.

Answer 10

does germany's flag represent the holocaust ?