What do you think about the "prison population" thing many atheists like to bring up on the issue of morality?

Question

This often-parroted saying: "most of the prison population is christian". I find it to be the height of disingenuity. Something they like to hide behind and is extremely equivocal at best.

First of all, even if it is true, isn't it obvious that what really matters is whether they were christians or atheists BEFORE they got to prison? Most of those prisoners were obviously not christians before they went to prison. And who doesn't know that the proclaimatons of prisoners are often suspect?

Secondly, they say it as though it is the ONLY criteria for "immorality". As if there aren't many other ways people are immoral that are not covered by state law. That's what I meant by "using it as cover".

Lastly, if atheists are a minority as they like to say, then does it matter if most of the PP is theist? Wouldn't it be the wrong way to judge which group of people is more likely to be "immoral"? Isn't that a flawed statistical comparison?

I'd like to know what you think about it.

"e fn w" What the hell has your nonsensical spamish answer got to do with my question? Who is talking about the poor? I'm talking about CRIMINALS and IMMORALITY. Immoral people are more likely to be people like you.

Answer 1

Well, I think it would be more appropriate to suggest that there are some additional social factors in play here that do not necessarily support the suggestion that purely based on philosophical factors one is more likely to end up in prison or not.

I think it is more genuine to look at the HARD numbers on the economics of the situation. Put simply, Prison is for the poor. This is not to say that middle-class or rich folks don't deserve to get into prison. It IS to say that by and large our legal system does not necessarily serve the poorest members of the community particularly well.

Secondly, poor folks are FAR more likely to be in the position of committing crimes as a function of necessity, such as shoplifting, minor robbery etc. When someone starts in the system early, that's pretty much a good indicator there could be a repeated - experience over time.

Thirdly, our system of economics is - unless anyone hasn't informed - grossly unfair to the "worker" class (read poor). This is not to make some socialist/communist out-take, but merely a fact. The genesis of more than a few crimes is out of desperation - drugs, alcoholism, mild mental disturbances and a whole host of other societal ills befall the poor of our society far more than the dwindling middle-class or certainly the rich.

Fourthly, I think education largely is a division point, the more thoroughly educated you are the more mentally oriented you become, less action oriented and less persuaded by the interpretations of others, and more on your own moral compass. This however, says NOTHING of innate intelligence but does speak - again to overall educational opportunities that people have the fortune to experience.

To that end, especially with those with advanced degrees you understand that religion serves an IMPORTANT function with respect to crowd control. Nothing motivates people quite like belief in a God/Gods. It is a strong center for our passions and can become psychologically entwined with other elemental aspects of our passions. More specifically, when religion is considered for oneself, it is viewed for it's METAPHORICAL rather than literal content , which I feel is of much more enduring value in today's world.

So Atheism is in a sense a form of expression of the spiritual sensibility but utterly denuded of the morality narratives and teachings of traditional religions, it is however often the case that researchers and scientists are profoundly spiritual, just in different ways.

Such impassioned beliefs which are common both to theistic and atheistic philosophical modes of thinking, as is most notoriously demonstrated by virtue of Prof. Dawkins militantly evangelical variant of atheism.

Personally, I am sympathetic to those who feel that this extremism is not constructive no matter whether it comes from a theistic or atheistic source.

Finally, and perhaps most obviously, I think that the old saying that there are no atheists in foxholes is probably true of the prison population. Put more specifically, especially in some of the less pleasant prison circumstances, having SOMETHING, ANYTHING to hold on to - to keep one's sanity in check is essential.

So whether it's Christianity, Islam, Zen Buddhism or more extremely racially oriented groups such as skinheads or gangs or something, you do what you have to, to survive.

Answer 2

They've become christians, muslims and devote theists because of their position in life....on the bottom rung so to speak. The 'born-again Christian' phenomena has a scientific explanation. In times of peril, deep despair, great crisis or calamity, a certain gene kicks in their limbic system of their brains...the so-called god-gene as neuroscientists have called it.

Why is this a part of the human character? Simple, it evolved from the days of our primitive barbarian ancestors as a survival mechanism to cope and survive in a hostile world. These same neuroscientists are now able to artificially trigger a 'religious' experience or presence by probing certain areas of the limbic system...that last remnant of our reptillian past, the place where our innermost emotions reside (fear, hate, anger, and yes, our irrational belief systems).

The cerebral cortex is a late development of our species (say within the last 100,000). This is where our logical thought processes reside and where we atheists have found our basis in reality.

But obsolete genes do not die overnight, so we'll be seeing a distorted worldview from the majority of the earth's population for some time to come.

Answer 3

Most of the general population in a Christian country are Christian, so it stands to reason the prison population will reflect that.

I don't think most prisoners in Israel are Christian, somehow.