Non-U.S. Residents: Do you have a form of 'Pledge of Allegiance'?

Question

Our elementary aged children are forced at the beginning of every school day to stand with their classmates and recite The Pledge of Allegiance. Its little poem that expresses your patriotism. Personally, I have a problem with this, and the majority of Americans have a problem with me because of this! I'm also one of those pesky characters who refuses to stand, hand over heart at ballgames while the American anthem plays on. What do baseball and God have in common anyway? Is God going to concern himself about a ballgame while babies die in Sudan?

My refusal to participate in activities is threefold, a) being that I'm agnostic and GOD is in every one of these works of 'art', b) ummmm, isn't there supposed to be something called separation of church and state and c) I'm a non conformist by nature. This is not an argument about whether I'm right or wrong. I'm only curious if other countries force patriotism down impressionable school children's throats in the name of God?

I didn't ask for an American opinion because I already know how most of you think.

To the poster who is obviously confused about the 'God' part in the pledge....it is COMMON knowledge that the words one nation under God was added during the Cold War to spite Godless Communism, and was never the intent of our forefathers. Get your facts straight.
I am shamed one minute by my country and proud the next. It seems we are notorious for taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Sorry, but I like to think on a more global level. Once again, Americans have stepped forward and do what they always do, question your patriotism. I'm a direct descendant of a war hero from the Revolutionary war and my name is found in the book of DAR. I had relatives who fought on both sides of the civil war, and in every war since. I have every right to question the validity of Christian based patriotism because MY relatives were the ones who fought for me to have this right, and it would be wrong NOT to.

On a rant...LOL....
Cheers Norms, good to have you back!

The words 'dissent is the highest form of patriotism' come to mind.

Americans can be sooooo vulgar about this. I've been the ONLY one in a stadium filled with 50,000 people to remain seated. Why? We continue commit crimes against humanity (Guantanamo, Iraq, etc.), turn our backs on starving children dying from AIDS in Africa, and let our own children go without medical care or food. For a country 'based in Christianity' thats pretty shameful. I'm not going to 'act' like everything is 'ok' for the sake of solidarity. Apathy is deadly folks. Take a stand now, or deal with 'your' maker later.

Note the poster that says I have no appreciation for life. LOL!!!!

Answer 1

No. I live in England and we have a pledge of allegiance to ourselves. We don't believe in God and we are fine. We have pride in our nation but it is limited by the government. For instance they don't even allow us to fly the St George flag (England's national) outside our houses supposedly you are classed as a racist as it offends some minorities we have in this country. We have allegiance to ourselves. Individually. Patriotism is strongly opposed in this country. If you have any nationalistic views and are proud of your nation and want to show it here you are a BNP supporter. You are most definitely not forced to be patriotic in England infact it is indoctrinated from an early school age to be exactly the opposite. I agree also with everything you say. I find you very intelligent and a breath of fresh air on this site. Not trying to make your head swell or anything but yeh, I like your style.

Answer 2

I am Canadian, and I went to public school in the late 1950's through the 60's. Every morning in primary (elementary) school we would start the day with the 'Lords Prayer', 'God Save the Queen' followed by 'Oh Canada'. This was done by most public school systems in Canada going back to the 1800's. Oh Canada wasn't included as part of the school curriculum until the 1960's, and it wasn't made our official National anthem in untill 1980, 100 years after it was written in 1880.
Perhaps it varied from Province to Province. Some schools chose to do this at the end of the day instead. Of course when there was a 'King of England' the words were changed accordingly.
Many parents complained during the latter part of the 1970's, that reciting the Lords Prayer was wrong. This was due to the influx and immigration of many different cultures into the country at the time. It was abolished in the public school system in the late 70's I think. Though I believe the Catholic school system still recites the Lords Prayer.
Many schools stopped making it mandatory to sing 'God Save the Queen' during the 1980's and 90's also. Some had an assembly held in the gymnasium once a week and it was sung there instead.
A lot of legal crap came out of all of this. Here is something from the Province of Ontario dated 1989, making it mandatory to open or close each day with 'Oh Canada' and 'God Save the Queen' may be included:
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/extra/eng/ppm/108.html

Here's an interesting story about The Lords Prayer in Canadian schools, as well as singing God Save the Queen:
http://www.readersdigest.ca/debate.html?a=v&di=106
For most Canadians, reciting the Lords Prayer, singing God Save the Queen and Oh Canada was just part of growing up.
Maybe some of the younger people of today aren't subjected to this. I always looked forward to it, as it was a great way to kill 15 minutes before math class! Haaa!
But I agree, these things have no place in the public school system.

I am Agnostic as well. But as a little kid I didn't have much choice, and believed in this guy called God. As a matter of fact, I was scared sh**less of him!

Answer 3

I know you aren't looking for U.S. residents to post here, but I am one, and I've served my country in uniform, and I'm absolutely fine with the Pledge.

I'm currently a Christian but have been an agnostic. Patriotic expressions have never bothered me, because I owe this nation so much. My first wife was between an agnostic and an atheist and she found the Pledge, the National Anthem and most other patriotic expressions to be offensive.

You are challenging two words in the Pledge. There are other words. What about "indivisible?" What about "with liberty and justice for all?" These may be ideals but they are ideals we can all strive for. I do believe in God, not as an "enforcer," but as a creator and as a force in the world for good. I believe God would be happy with us striving to uphold our Constitution, loving and supporting each other and trying to bring justice to all--not just punishment, but the rewards that come as part of justice as well.

I became religious again when I began to realize that there is a great need for goodness and justice and love in this world. The concept of God may live only somewhere in our psyche, but if that is the only place where this concept lives it is still a force for good.

That is a concept that is not lost or wasted on impressionable school children. If they can grasp it, this can be a much better world.

Sorry. I know you weren't looking for a reply from me. This one is from my heart, however, and I would be a lesser person if I didn't share it.

Answer 4

You may have noticed that virtually every country has a National Anthem (At least they play music at the Olympics for each country's medalist). As far as a pledge of allegiance, most countries citizenry express an allegiance to their country, if not through a pledge, through national pride. As a believer in God and a military veteran I have no problem with people reciting the pledge of allegiance or standing and saluting (or covering your heart) during the pledge or national anthem. The word "God" in the pledge has absolutely nothing to do with the bill of rights separation of church and state. That amendment is to protect the citizens from state controlled religion and was ratified because of the British forcing the Church of England on the people. This country was largely founded on the desire to practice religion freely, which means you also have the right to not practice religion. Like most service members or retired service members, I find your disrespect for our nation repulsive, but would fight to the death your right to be disrespectful. Since you find so many faults with the USA, feel free to emigrate anywhere else.

Answer 5

You are right. Baseball has nothing to do with God. Neither does school. However, you would need to know the effect of a personal relationship with God, or even the Universe, to see why people would take any opportunity to thank the supreme force that places you every morning in a school room so that you learn something, or in a baseball field to watch Boston try to win a game, or in front of an altar to acknowledge you have found the love of your life. Thanking God sounds more mature and realistic than thanking "your lucky stars" but it amounts to the same thing. Therefore, just because you don't comprehend appreciation for life, doesn't mean that appreciation by others doesn't exist, and it would be wrong for you to impose your thoughts on those who do.

Answer 6

Before there can be individualism there needs to be unity. Many people have fought and died for you and your precious rights. But it's the American why to want more and spit on those that have died just so you can. It's kinda ironic.

Read "Religious Literacy" by Stephen Prothero. He explains in great detail what Christianity has to do with America and how it did indeed help shape this nation. He's a professor in Boston in Religious studies. He's a voice that's not pro-Christian or against it.

All countries have their pros and cons but I guarantee you that you'll never have as much freedom elsewhere then you do here. But if you want to continue to spit in the ground out of spite you're more than welcome to move on and try to find one.

Answer 7

First of all i would like to say to Jim, get a life!!! The free world is all about that ! Being free to say or do as you like within the law!! I myself would never stand for the Queen or any Anthem, but that doesn't make me unpatriotic!! I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. Its a great big pot of multi cultures living together as best as we can, so we just get on with. If there is a God? then i will explain my actions when i meet him, and being ( Allegedly ) all forgiving i presume i will be OK. Live you life the way YOU want to, and if you want to follow everybody else, go live with the sheep. Good on you Bijou, keep up the good work

Answer 8

Contrary Mary is what my mom would have called someone like you. In non-US countries, where freedom of speech or religion is not espoused, pledges of allegiance are not necessary because you can be arrested for saying anything "contrary" to state doctrine. Even in the U.K., slander doesn't have to be proven, just implied, for you to be sued and/or jailed.
Enjoy your political freedom.

Answer 9

somebody suggested that the only way some thing could be humorous is while it has a hoop of certainty to it.... regrettably, it is so humorous because of the fact it does ring actual! i don't understand why it is in R&S... yet we appreciate it besides. Have a blessed day!

Answer 10

In the UK the only similar thing is the oath that the Army and RAF people take when they join up.

Strangely the Royal Navy does not demand it, but then they know they are the chosen few!