Is the degradation of black women an issue for white feminists?

Question

First, let me say that I would never have supposed otherwise until today. In fact, one of the main reasons I have some sympathy for the feminist movement is that I frequently see my sisters (literally and figuratively) degraded by men of both races and see to many of my brothers failing to speak out against it.

But, in the course of comparing the struggle for racial equality with the struggle for sexual equality, a white feminist pointed to the Don Imus case as an example of racism being taken more seriously than sexism:

"Nearly 6 months ago shock jock Don Imus was abruptly fired from CBS for making a racial slur during public broadcast, and scorned by nearly every national media circut."

I was dismayed at her choice of THIS example. The young people he attacked were women as well as black. And the slurs against them were sexist ("hoes") as well as racist ("nappy-headed"), but apparently she thinks this is just an issue of race.

It is true that the most publicized opposition to these attacks on these innocent, young black women was led by black men, but I would never have supposed that white women, particularly white feminists, were not just as outraged.

Until now.

I do hope that this is just an aberration.

Alexandra, if your point is that their are double standards in what media outlets (run largely by white men) will broadcast, you have a point to some extent. A black comedian making fun of "whitey" is more readily aired than racial slurs by whites.

But please don't generalize about all blacks. many of us DO have a problem with slurs against white people and you obviously just don't know enough of us to realize that.

Rebel

The right of black (men) to vote was recognized under the Constitution before the right of women to vote was. However, various laws, intimidation, and murder were used to prevent blacks (men and women) from voting as recently as the mid-1960s. And obstruction and intimidation targeted at black voters has been documented as recently as 2000 in Florida and 2004 in Ohio. I don't know of similar efforts to specifically prevent white women from voting since the 1920s.

the wage gap between black men and white men is greater than the wage gap between white women and white women. The wage gap between black women and white men is even greater. And the wage gap between the races actually INCREASES with education, unlike the wage gap for white women and men.

And please do not try to equate African chattel slavery with the oppression of white women. It is deeply offensive to draw such comparisons and it undermines cooperation between disenfranchised groups with many shared concerns.

LIGHTHOUSE

You (and some others) have made an excellent point about where the media focused. Some observations:

Ironically, it was conservatives (even a stopped clock is right twice a day) who brought the sexism issue out, although they did so in order to cry hypocrisy against blacks for not criticizing the portrayal of women in hip-hop culture.

And they were right. It was deeply hypocritical and we need to speak out more about the degradation of women. (We, as black men, should be concerned when anyone is degraded, but do forgive me if I say we ESPECIALLY need to stop portraying our sisters this way in our "entertainment".

REBEL

My apologies. You are correct that a "who had it worse" discussion is pointless and destructive. I took you to be doing that (rightly or wrongly) and responded in kind, but that is not how we ought to proceed.

My concern about feminist issues is that I believe that black men have a lot to learn from feminism if we as a people are to survive. We need to respect the women in our lives and be more aware when we see women being degraded. (Black or white.) We have a lot to learn by listening to feminist concerns and we ought to be allies with feminists (black or white) on many issues.

Drummer, nice strawman

Objecting the comparisons that strike me as misinformed and counter-productive (whether or not I am mistaken in hose assessments) does not entail an assumption that only blacks have sufferred.

men and women of all races have suffered brutal oppression durig war and under totalitarian regimes throughout the world: Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.

The Bosnian women who were subjected to systematic rape and torture by the Serbs were white.

I could give a long list of examples, but you get the idea.

Questioning certain comparisons does not mean saying the only blacks have ever been oppressed.

Answer 1

This is a complicated issue. Above all, the degradation of WOMEN is an issue for feminists...

I agree that her example was a poor choice. But there's some things you have to keep in mind. Racism gets so much more attention than sexism these days. If you're a white woman who recognizes that there are plenty of inequalities facing white women (or, women in general), then this can be very frustrating. Also, I am still a little annoyed that black men were given freedom sooo many years before women were, so I suppose I still find the overwhelming attention to racial issues (while my own are ignored) very aggravating...blacks were "freed" so many years before women were and yet they are still getting all this attention for their issues.

Overall, any kind of racism or sexism bothers me. It's when racism takes overwhelming priority over sexism that I get upset.

So...sorry for the complex answer, but...YES, the degradation of black women is an issue for me. However, I don't know how long I'm going to continue being able to be sympathetic about racist issues, when so many minorities are brushing MY issues aside. (I guess it's an I-scratch-your-back-you-scracth-mine kinda thing).


EDIT:
Just to clarify, are you attempting to turn this into a pissing contest? "Our problems are bigger than your problems"? I hope not, because that won't get us anywere.

And sorry, but I've got every right to compare slavery to the oppression of white women. It's true that life as a slave was worse than life as a white woman, but then again slavery only lasted for several hundred years (total, note that I'm including more countries besides just America). The oppression of women has been around since the beginning of humanity. Whereas for the majority of human history, blacks were free and happy on their own continent. Before Europeans colonized Africa, black men actually treated their women with more respect than European men treated their women (at least...in the tribe that I read about, the Igbo).

Anyway...at no point in my question was I attempting to make any divide between minorities and feminists any deeper than it already was. If you've perceived that I was trying to, then you're reading things into my answer that I didn't put there, and I apologize for any confusion. I was only giving you an answer that was as honest as I could be, based on my own experiences and opinions.

All things considered though...does it really *matter* whose problems are bigger? The point is, both white women and blacks still are facing lots of discrimination in this country, and as long as we both acknowledge and are sympathetic to one another's issues, I think we'll be fine. It's when we go around making tallies of whose situation in life is worse that we're going to run into difficulties.


EDIT 2:

Yes, I agree that minorities and feminists ought to ally themselves. We've all got a lot to learn from each other and we can support each other in a lot of ways. Hopefully in the future, people will become aware of that and we can all progress together.

Answer 2

Degradation of any group of women ,should be an issue with other feminist of all races. Black women suffer from sexism and racism, They are not the only people that suffer racism and sexism. The comment that the black woman has been freed, long before the white woman is ( very misinformed) at the best. Trying to insert the point of who suffered the most' is a well know fact in the country, The minority (S) and the women have suffer more than the men.
Woman can confront their issue's much more effectively as a united group , more than each group fighting for their own. Good Luck

Answer 3

Well, the feminist and abolitionist movement were inexorably linked. In fact, many early feminists like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were abolitionists and founded many anti-slavery societies. They even worked with many major abolitionists (Frederick Douglass). However, the relationship may have been severed after blacks got the right to vote and women didn't. Many women felt this wasn't real progress since at that time women and blacks were second-class citizens. I don't think there is any racism in today's feminism but I'm sure there are some feminists out there who racist. You find them in every circle.

Answer 4

Wow. What a great question! The degredation of anyone is a feminist concern, and I don't agree that racism and sexism should be compared as if one were worse than the other, or one deserves more attention than the other.

Feminists have been at the forefront of virtually every civil rights movement there is. They marched in solidarity with Martin Luther King, they chained themselves to fences to protest nuclear war; they had numerous marches in support of environmental causes, long before the environment was in vogue. So I would say that anyone suffering is a concern for feminists.

Contrary to what you read in here, feminists are actually pretty good people who do care about a great many more social issues than abortion and last names. Those are things that get the press. It's the people out there doing things nobody notices--that's what feminism is. It's doing what you say you believe: helping the poor, volunteering at a shelter, working at a rape crisis centre. Feminists don't walk around in uniforms, kicking random men in the balls...they actually contribute to causes that they know will affect their children and their children's futures.

Answer 5

I think the degradation of any woman, from any race, will be an issue for feminists from any race. To support this, I point to outrage from the western world to practices such as forced marriage, sacrificial/honour killings and female genital mutilations.

However, now your question has me thinking about whether the outrage exists due to feminist causes, or due to feeling sorry that women from other races undergo such procedures? I think it is the earlier reason - I believe there would be similar outrage if such practices occurred in the western world.

As for Don Imus - I agree with you. However, it may have been due to media portrayal and focus on the racisim remarks which made her use this example. If Don Imus had said something about the people he attacked being female, and the media portrayed so, it may have been used for sexism purposes.

Answer 6

The answer is very simple. Feminists are concerned in whatever gains them more power.
Where were feminists during the 60's when black families were being destroyed by welfare, which promised income to black mothers to remove the father from the family and adopt Uncle Sugar as surrogate husband and father? Answer: nowhere until it was realized that this could be spread to include white women, then and only then did it become an issue.

With Imus, the result would have been the same if he had left off the "nappy-headed" part of his statement. Feminists would be protesting in droves while ignoring any statements by others that are simply racist without also being sexist.

Personally, I don't see feminism being any less racist than any other group that is predominately white. Feminists will use race if it offers opportunity for women as a group and ignore it when it doesn't.

Answer 7

Yes, very much. I am a white woman I think black women have it twice as bad as me. I feel the degradation that ALL women experience through sexism, but I don't experience racism or notice it, if I do, because it happens so little. All of my life, I have heard white people make racist comments about other people that weren't white or christian.
Racism exists and is alive-n-well today. I think that if ALL women could first unite, then we could work together to solve serious problems such as racism. Women make up half of the population and we could make some major changes with that many people.

For me the question is "why don't women unite in order to make changes about sexism?" or "why can't most women even recognise that they are being degraded in the first place, especially white women?"

Answer 8

@rebel, answers these questions for me in order to take you seriously. 1. What the hell are "white women issues". 2. How are you people discriminated against for being white women 3. Do you not realize that black women have it worse than you people because not only do they face racism but they face sexism as well. And they are the ones who get discriminated against for exclusivley being black women. 4. What makes you feel the need to compare your "sexism" to slavery. All in all, you are a ******* idiot and i cant believe this guy would pick you as best answer, he is obviously uneducated

Answer 9

Hm never though about it that way. Before I actually heard what Imus said all I heard was that he made some racial remarks I never heard about him having said anything sexist until I actually heard it myself. It seems in todays society sexism doesn't seem to be taken as seriously as racism which is somewhat said. If he had just called those basketball players hoe's rather than nappy headed hoe's I doubt it would have spurred as much controversy as it did.

Answer 10

Yes the race part of Imus's insult got more attention by the media. Many people got the sexist part too w/o the media saying it but I think that more people did not.

I know that some people can't see a wrong unless they are told. Maybe more than just some.. :(

I don't know the context..maybe the white feminist who said that example didn't mean it like it came out? Or maybe you got her correct. She doesn't speak for white feminists or anyone else but herself..

Answer 11

as someone pointed out on here for another question, civil rights activists have been as demonized as feminists in the last twenty years. clearly, the don imus remarks were based as much in sexism as they were racism. he called them ho's! this is a feminist issue! not just a race issue! obviously, he is a racist and a sexist. racism and sexism combine to disastrous effects when black women are the targets in media.