Doesn't the burden of proof lie with believers?

Question

I say there is no god, as there is nothing even approachig conclusive evidence. Believers say there is a god, but utter glib claims of proof such as "how else could we be here" and "look at the complexity of a snowflake". Just interested in your thoughts.

By the way, it's jack daniels tonight.....smooth.........

Nige, where is your proof of a judgment? I knew it - feeble platitudes and trotted-out verses of time-worn trash.

Answer 1

The possibility of proof depends on several things:

1.....A meaningful, agreed and clearly understood question,

1a.....Not formally essential, but commonly accepted is the test of falsifiability. According to this, a thesis is only debatable (or meaningful) if you can identify a hypothetical fact or argument which would disprove it. This rules out a lot of possible questions.

2.....A relevant body of data which can be accepted by all sides and referred to as necessary,

3.....Agreement on what constitutes proof - i.e. a common system of logic.


This works well in maths and not too badly in science, but questions like the existence of God run into problems on all fronts.

In a case like this everyone must settle the question for himself on the balance of probabilities. In principle, with such an ill-defined hypothesis, it is hard to see where the burden of proof should lie: there is probably no available proof at all, and the claim that the onus rests on one's opponents amounts to a demand that they surrender out of hand.

My own view is that the question is meaningless (i.e. non-debatable). There is no agreement even among coreligionists as to exactly what is meant by "God". Differences between religions are naturally more fundamental. The question, "Is there a God?" is therefore different in kind from the question, "Is there a Queen of the UK?" We know what a queen is. We do not know what a god is. Again, our queen can be observed (as the Queen of the USA cannot) and so the arguments may be settled. We can agree that such propositions are falsifiable by reference to possible adverse facts. None of this works with God. We cannot agree, either, on what constitutes proof in either direction.

Don't you think we had better leave the discussion aside until after death, when we either shall, or shall not, have fuller knowledge?

Answer 2

Doesn't the burden of proof lie with believers?
Of course not. They are believers. Why should they prove anything to anyone?

The exercise is for non-believers to prove. Such as....
A) God is the limit on Creation (created all)
B) God is the limit on Space (same thing)
C) God is the limit on Time (the beginning and the end)

So without that we have Unlimited Space, Unlimited Time, and Unlimited Creation. Within that, everything which our meager minds can possibly conceive of will eventually, someplace, exist.

95% of the planet "conceives" of a God along the lines of what was just laid out.

Answer 3

“Burden of Proof” lies with whoever made the assertion in the first place. So, if I initiate a discussion about God and say that He does exist, then I have the job of proving my point, while whoever might debate the point with me need only provide a shadow of a doubt about my assertion.

So, if you want to win an intellectual debate about God (which no one ever wins anyway) make sure that you start out on the rebuttal end of the conversation. Because whether you take the side of the “go-straight-to-Heaven believer” or the “headed-to-Hell infidel”, by starting the argument…you already lose.

Answer 4

As a legal man I would say that The Bible and other ancient works indicate that there may be a God. The counter argument is simply a total rejection of such material.

Answer 5

You put the burden on the believer. You believer there is not a G-d. Okay, prove it. Of course you would say how do you prove a negative. Prove something does not exist.

There are beliefs and there is knowledge. I know my kids love me. Could they really hate me? Hypothetically you could make a case, but I know they do love me. It is not a belief. That is the rub. Some here will tell you that they know there is a G-d, so they have no reason to prove anything.

So you can say you know there is no G-d.

Me, I believe in G-d, but I have doubts on some days.

By the way, Scotch is horrible. You want Whiskey, try Irish...Murphy's smooth.

Answer 6

Atheism is likewise a theory equipment. it is not a faith, as some might declare, even though it does require a leap of religion, when you consider that there is not any genuine way for an atheist to be attentive to for specific that he's powerful. in this regard, the atheist is making a great declare (that there is not any god) in the absence of evidence one way or the different, and refuses to settle for the burden of evidence.

Answer 7

I deeply disagree sith sadsac: God created everything, so did he create himself ? And if not, who created God ?
To answer the question, there is no burden of proof as there is absolutely no proof either way. There is just a very, very low probability that there is a God but nobody can think further than that.
Except believers...

Answer 8

It is always encumbent upon the one making a claim to provide the proof. When those who claim god exists provide a shred of evidence for their claim they may have a case. Until then they can say, "how else... whatever" as many times and as loud as they want, and it still won't matter as that is not evidence.

Answer 9

There never can be any proof for Jack Daniels addled Doubting Thomases. Except perhaps the 'proof' on the side of the bottle.

Answer 10

The proof of the creator's existence is all around you. Think about it. Nothing ever created actually disappears. It may alter but it is always there in some form. Even scientists have to admit this. It is arrogant of non believers to demand proof when the answer to their question is right in front of them. You have the right not to beleive - it is a God given right. However, at the judgement you will be called to account, make no mistake. Christ will come again to judge the living and the dead and to establish His Kingdom in Israel. Enjoy your Jack Daniels while you can, after all, if you believe this life is all you have then you'd better make the most of it.