Aren't our "forefathers" outdated?

Question

I constantly see questions and answers on here about how things like the patriot act is unconstitutional and how our forefathers would be ashamed... For what are suppose to be progressive parties, they sure do like to live in the past. What freedoms have you lost? What aren't YOU allowed to do now that you could do before? Or do you just like to act like your more important then you really are so you can say the government is after you?

Our country may have been founded a mere 200+ years ago but so much has changed. Now we have bombs that can take out whole cities and destroy whole states' living conditions... People that will fly airplanes as big as a football field into public buildings killing thousands. Our Forefathers have been outdated by technology where just a small group of 100 or so can take out millions of people and a 1/3 of our country with the help of a nuke or two.

I read the Franklin quote regurgitated every day on here about a person giving up freedom for security deserves neither... Do you think he could even fathom people flying planes into skyscrapers, let alone nuclear bombs? If we're not secure, how long will our freedom last?

Well, I guess you could just shoot a terrorist about to blow up you or your building or city yourself... Unless of course your anti-gun... Sucks to be you then I guess.

You can't keep anything, INCLUDING FREEDOM if you don't protect yourself and your country.

I believe the Constitution and our forefathers are very important parts of out history and why we are here but the things around us have changed so much that we can't use a document verbatim that is ancient compared to our world's advancements. If you want to go back to our forefather's time by getting rid of your electricity, phones, cars, factories, computers, TVs, supermarkets, a place where women and minorities have a vote, and you have to work on a farm to feed your family, I suggest you find a nice 2nd-3rd world country to settle in because America is moving forward.

Answer 1

The wisdom of our forefathers is not timeless. Do not forget the message, but do not forget the times to which it applied either. One age's wisdom is not absolute for all periods of time. You make a good point that technology and advancements have changed the ways of the world, and we have to adapt to more modern solutions.

As the old saying goes: had FDR followed Washington's advice, we'd all be speaking German.

Answer 2

When they say "Freedom Isn't Free" it isn't only about soldiers fighting wars. In order to live free you have to accept certain risks. If you want to live in an ultra safe, no danger, everything decided for you country then I would suggest a place like Japan or many of the european countries. They aren't totally safe yet but they are doing their best by restricting anything and everything. If you don't want to leave the country then let me suggest the PRK(People's Republic of Kalifornia) or maybe Hawaii. Now I have no idea how long our freedom will last. I believe Jefferson said; "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Now if you read that and think about what Mr. Jefferson said, I think you'll understand that he knew exactly what you are talking about. That people might lose sight of what freedom really is and what it means. That the people might be willing to give up these freedoms, and the government readily willing to take them back, because they don't know what tyranny is like. If you put this quote together with the Ben Franklin quote you have previously mentioned; "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Now I guess its really a choice that the whole nation will have to make, how much safety they are willing to trade liberty for. We have already traded some of it away with the 1994 Clinton/Biden Gun Ban and the "Patriot" act. I'm glad to see that the Gun Ban has since expired but who knows how long that will last with the 2008 elections coming up. I will continue to try to spread the word about liberty and essential freedoms because I think they are timeless ideas that deserve our full thought and gratitude to the men who originally fought to establish and preserve them. PS If you haven't yet seen V for Vendetta, I'd highly recommend it. In my opinion it out to be required viewing in high school and college. I'll end my answer with a simple quote from that movie... "Freedom, Forever!"

Answer 3

Magma, the right to bear arms protects all of your other right. Without it there would be no recourse if the government suspended the constitution and all of your other rights. Firearms have been used by criminals to comit heinous acts, but if you make the penalty for using a firearm in the comission of a crime life imprisonment, that would stop in a hurry. Additionally, There are far more examples of persons using a weapon to defend themselves or stop crimes than there are incidents of people misusing them. Outlawing guns only serves to embolden criminals. Look at the crime rate in the district of columbia where guns are banned compared to similar communities where laws favor gun ownership. Big difference in crime rates. As far as our forefathers being outdated, not really. They had the forsight to write our constitution with internal mechanisms for updating it. Without these we would have had to scrap the whole thing a long time ago. As far as the constitutionality of the patriot act, until the supreme court rules against it, it is the law of the land and assumed constitutional. Any grousing about its provisions is merely opinion until the supreme court decides otherwise.

Answer 4

Loss of liberty is loss of liberty whether in the 18th Century by means available then or by 21st Century means. It is all the same.

No our forefathers are by no means outdated. The basic concepts and principles they so eloquently put into words can easily be adapted to any age. Just because we are no longer in the 18th through 20th Centuries doesn't mean we have to advocate totalitarianism. The so called "patriot" act and other things declared in the past few years may not have caused me to lose any freedom but the potential for that is greatly heightened because of them.

The founding fathers were the progressives of their time. Each generation of progressives builds on the progressive foundations of those who have gone before them so rather than think of the founding fathers as old and outdated think of them as laying the foundation for the greatest nation ever to be created by human beings. To keep their spark and visions of freedom going progressives continue to take their torch through the years and through the generations to continue to move the nation ahead so all mankind can be better for it. A nation that sets the example for what others can be, the US has been a great influence on the world. It is that way because progressives have led the way.

Answer 5

magma above is the perfect example of the brainwashed lemming pukes that public re-education camps put out instead of scholars. FYI moron: Guns save lives every day. and guess what moron? take away guns from law abiding citizens and the rapists and scum of the world will use a hammer or a knife to murder and rape. then what moron? did you know that KGB docs say the soviets had planned on a war with the US only to decide against because of the large numbers of PRIVATELY OWNED GUNS which would mean they could never fully take over the nation? did you know that moron? i know you didn't.

forefathers will never be outdated and the constitution is not a living breathing document that can change as the country changes. it's written in concrete and it will stand as such until the next revolution separates this nation as it should be. the moral and immoral separated by law and borders. those who love the law and constitution and those who hate it and only use it to further their leftist/commie and socialist hate God country and family agendas.

"Our constitution is only for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other"
John Adams.

Answer 6

No, they aren't. If you read every word of the constitution you will find nothing that precludes national defense while at the same time ensuring personal freedom.

Answer 7

Well, the freedom to bear arms certainly seems arcane to me.
After what seems like tens of thousands of innocent lives lost within the last decade alone, you would think someone would have the brains to ban gun in the United States completely.

Answer 8

Exactly which pne of the forefathers principles do you suggest we stamp "OBSOLETE"?

Answer 9

Those who forget history’s lessons are doomed to repeat them.

Answer 10

Yours may be but mine are not.America is what it is today because of our forefathers.To many people are trying to change that now-They are WRONG!
GOD BLESS AMERICA!