Do you have to put your life on the line in Iraq before your criticism is valid?

Question

On that basis all Conservatives are adulterers for criticizing President Clinton......

Can't a patriotic American defend and support our troops without going to die in Iraq or Afghanistan first?

Just look at how the CONS treat the parents and families of men and women who have served and died in this war folly...e.g. Mrs Cindy Sheehan, Pat Tillman's family etc...etc...

"Are you saying that in order to criticize an adulterer you must first be one?" That precisely is what the basis of Conservative logic is on this war of terror... To criticize you must serve...

Answer 1

I went to college during the Vietnam War. We had debates about it, wrote papers about it, had class discussions about it. I told an instructor once that I was intimidated to criticize the war since there were guys in the class who'd actually BEEN there. He said that the guys who'd fought in Vietnam, we didn't mean to take anything away from them, but fighting there didn't necessarily mean they understood the politics behind the war. And a lot of vets, after discussions in class, would say so themselves.

I protested against the Vietnam War, as did a lot of returned veterans. Conservatives said the same thing about anti-war people in those days as today, that they were subversive and anti-American, a fifth-column organized and led by Hanoi or Bejing. But I think history has vindicated us!

Answer 2

1.No. But you have to be willing to put your life on the line. And not just for the conflicts you agree on. You have to be willing to take orders even when you may not see their purpose. That's the difference between Conservatives and Liberals. Conservatives will follow orders and make changes afterwards. Liberals will find excuses for doing nothing and blame the whole thing on the conservatives.

2. And by what convoluted logic do Conservatives become adulterers for being critical of Clinton.

3. Sure can. I know the combat is a scary place and mistakes are made and unless the act is intentional and thought about before it's a mistake nothing more. Even Abu Ghraib was nothing. I've seen worse at a frat hazing. Have you sent anything to the troops to help support them??

4. Cindy is a nut. Why should anyone pay attention to Cindy when they ignore how about 6000 other parents feel about their loss? Pat's family were misinformed. And that was bad. But if you want to really see what bad was, go back to my generation and see how LIBERALS treated my generation when they were coming back from Nam.

5. And it was a Democrat Congress and a Democrat President that was responsible for what was happening in Nam.

Answer 3

This coming from the party who grants amnesty for votes.
all cons are adulterers? overgreneralization but ok.

First you say you have to vote to speak. Now you have to serve in an all voluntary army to support it.

Sheehan is a nut. The press made her a hero, and there are people losing family members day in and day out, and that broad is hurting more than the others, please.

Just look how you dumbocrats ran on stopping the war to get into office and havn't done it. Lying? Should you be brought before a committee? You also said you would raise min. wage. Not done yet either. Lying? Broken promises.

What about the stem cell research she promised? wow.

Answer 4

No. But you have to have some idea what you're talking about in order for your criticism to be valid. One who has put his life on the line in Iraq (as I have) has a better than average understanding of what he's talking about in terms of the war. However, I don't consider direct participation to be an automatic prerequisite in order to have a valid criticism.

Note that Cindy Sheehan has not really participated in the Iraq war, so her opinion is not validated by any kind of "inside knowledge." No one forced her son to join the military. People join the military with the full understanding that they could be sent to fight in conflicts that they may not necessarily support.

Also note that you don't really see all that many Iraq war vets joining the "pull out now" crowd.

Answer 5

Let's be very clear here. If you are not a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, that does not mean you are not a patriotic American. One does not have to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan to be a supporter of the American way of life or a supporter of the troops. Having said that, however, those of you who have not served in Iraq or Afghanistan need to realize you're being lied to by a media machine that wants a Democrat (namely, Hillary Clinton) to be in The White House next year. The main reason you get so many military members who have been to the sandbox (yes, I'm one) vilifying liberals is because those who are so critical of the war in Iraq have never set foot in Iraq. How can they possibly know what's really going on if they haven't been there? And how can you rely on the mainstream liberal media when they have an obvious anti-war anti-Bush agenda? When was the last time you heard anything positive about the war in Iraq on CNN or CBS? Let me answer that for you: WE NEVER HAVE, because to report the whole truth doesn't fit into their liberal agenda. FACT: Weapons of mass destruction, as well as the armaments needed to deliver them, were found in Iraq and in much greater quantities than the mainstream liberal media has reported. FACT: The Iraqi people, for the most part, are grateful for the presence of our men and women in uniform because they know the factional fighting (and the body count of innocent Iraqi people) would be ten times higher if we weren't there. How can I assert these as facts? Simple: I'VE BEEN TO IRAQ! I've seen the WMDs with my own eyes, and I've experienced the gratitude of the Iraqi people firsthand. You call this war folly -- where do you get your information? Do you get it from people who have actually fought the war, or do you get it from reporters who stay in luxurious surroundings and show you only what they want you to see? BOTTOM LINE: You cannot give valid criticism without valid information on the situation, and the information you're getting from the mainstream liberal media is 100% unreliable and 180 degrees out of phase with what's REALLY happening in Iraq. I'm not suggesting that you go over to Iraq and see for yourself, but I am suggesting that you get a much more accurate assessment of the war in Iraq from someone who has lived it.

Answer 6

You have smoked way to much crack brother.

First off Cindy Sheehan is a nut job and the right have let her speak her mind to no end. She has gotten herself arrested and in trouble all on her own by going beyond the boundaries of the law and civil protests. Her son joined the armed forces on his own and wanted to serve his country. He did so bravely and his mother should respect that he did so and it was his choice.

Pat Tillman wanted to serve his country so badly and believed in the war so much, that he gave up millions of dollars to give his life for the cause of freedom. It is a tragedy that the Army has lied about what happened to him, but how does that have anything to do with the Republicans? As soon as it was found out that there was something fishy about his death, the government launched an investigation to get to the bottom of it. No one knows what really happened yet and probably never will. How in the heck do you find the sack to say your speaking up for him and his family, when he believed in what he was doing?

No one has said you have to serve to have a voice. All there saying is to have some respect for those that are serving since most of the rest of us were way too big of cowards to do so! The vast majority of soldiers serving, believe in what they are doing, so your certainly not defending them by speaking against what they are doing, are you? I have a brother-in-law who is Iraq and a sister-in-law who has served on both war fronts and they believe in what they are doing! They joined because they love there country and are willing to die fighting for it.

I hate to tell you this but being "patriotic" to your cause and phylosophy are different than being patriotic to your country.

Answer 7

You started off well with your question and I feel as long as your opinion is educated and based in fact, your criticism is valid. I do not get your leap to how that converts to conservatives being adulterers for criticizing Clinton. Are you saying that in order to criticize an adulterer you must first be one? I must correct you on Mrs. Sheehan.....she is not a Mrs. She actually ruined her marriage and family to try to prove a point. She was a little off when it came to bran functions and rational thought. For one, her son raised his hand and joined and knew what he was getting into. The loss of life is a risk one must be willing to take when you join any branch of the armed forces. Just like being a policeman or fireman, there is risk. For someone to complain about it after the fact really upsets me. If she had such a huge issue with it that she is willing to turn her back on her husband and the rest of her family....well maybe she should have stopped her son from joining. As for Tillmans family....there was a lot of bullshit that happened in that case and I do agree it was wrong. I understand what the Army tried to do, but I do not agree with it. When you make a mistake you should own up to it right away. If I am not mistaken integrity is one of their core values and it was not shown at all.

Answer 8

Well of course you dont have to have served before you can voice your opinion. What many of would say is that unless you have been there (and privy to high level intel) then you probably dont know what is going on and thus all you are doing is speculating. If you are smart enough to know that what you are saying is purely opinion with little to no facts to back it up then that is fine- free speech. If your goal is to spread inaccurate information solely for political gain or because you are a blind ideologue who believes everything your party tells you and disbelieves anything said by those from outside your party then that is a different story. We all have the right to say what we choose. We dont have the right not to be questioned about our positions. People also have a right to question you and try to get you to support your position with facts. You in turn also have the right to refuse to do so. It is a give and take.
It is my opinion that Cindy Sheehan has disgraced her son's memory and many in her family agree. You may have a different opinion and we are free to leave it at that. Where people go wrong is the belief that no one has the right to voice disagreement with the things we choose to say.

Answer 9

Putting our troops in harm’s way unnecessarily is disgraceful. It disrespects the sacrifice those who have voluntarily joined or were drafted and served their 6 years in one or another of America’s wars or breaks between wars, or got killed in the process. Their sacrifices were disgraceful as well when they so often served and died to protect American corporate interests in the Banana Republics or Hawaii or the Philippines, and elsewhere (under the illusion they were fighting for freedom, etc), which naturally developed American interests in manufacturing weapons, and therefore the conflicts which inspire their purchase by others.
When America assumes for itself to have interests all over the globe, there is no area in which billions of the people’s money cannot be spent to watch and control. With interests everywhere, we have to spy on everyone. While the psychopaths pursue a Pax Americana, a US-only dominated world, they are quite prepared to spend all of OUR money doing it. Those billions are why the US states cannot meet its budget, and why the federal programs are being cut back. The poor must be punished (or jailed). Where-ever it might’ve gone, those billions spent that killed and terrorized foreigners has never benefitted the people paying for it. It WILL socialize the costs of arms production, providing a good living to KBR, Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, Wakenhut, Boeing, Lockheed, Westinghouse, etc etc. You like ‘trickle-down economics’? Maybe you can get a job as their CEO’s maid or man-servant. Maybe when they succeed in privatizing social security, your pension can be in KBR stock (if they don’t loot it a la Enron), so you can not only invest your sons, you can also invest your dollars! You’ll pray for war, so the value of your pension rises, and the takeover is complete. Big Brother won’t have to watch you, you will control yourself.

Answer 10

Yes, I've heard this a number of times. Gee, you know, I saw this guy get run over by a bus. He died. But I guess I can't really comment on it until it happens to me.

I don't understand why Answerer #1 takes issue with the claim of patriot. Is this reserved only for neocons and skin-head neonazis.

I support the troops much better than you ever will. I demand that they stay home and safe unless we have been attacked. And I don't mean getting attacked by one group and invading another that had nothing to do with the attack in the first place. (CIA, FBI, MI5, etc) If you want the truth of the Iraq invasion check with them - And, please don't tell me they're a bunch of liberals in an effort to say they're lying.)

Answer 11

If so wouldn't that discount most of the Admin?

I have seen just a glimpse of the agony of parents and wives/husbands who've been robbed of their loved ones and some day before God those resposible will answer for the ultimate grief caused here and there.

(I guess the guy above would put down the IVAW also)