I raised the question of torture in Greece and had a bizarre response which mostly criticised me, assuming I was Albanian. This is very strange. I am not Albanian, though of course I absolutely deplore the recent torture of Albanians that was broadcast on YOUTUBE.
Certainly, many of the alleged incidences of torture in Greece involve foreigners and often Albanians, but not all.
My question remains:
Is there any media coverage or news about the trials of those men accused over 3 years ago of torturing Afghans? Mexicans? Is there news of any progress in the case agaisnt the police for brutality agaisnt the Johnsons (beaten up in 2003), any compensation for the Planespotters (2002-3), any progress in investigations into brutality and the murder of gay people in Spices bar; any compensation for the false imnprisonment of truck-driver Wilson (2003); Joseph Okeke( electrocuted by the police in Pallini); progress in cvases agaisnt abuse of Greek Nationas protesting against conscription
2007-09-21 06:52:14 · 13 answers · asked by Anonymous in Travel ➔ Europe (Continental) ➔ Greece
How funny you are Leonarda, though still wrong! But I would hate to think you see "Albanian" as a racist slur. I do not. Albania is a nation in recovery, as was Greece for many years. Maybe members of this forum need to remember that Greeks were immigrants too - and incidentally much appreciated as well! We all resent crime and aggression, but we are not all racist, I hope.
For the record, as I have told one of the people in this forum, I am British, and lived in Greece for many years. I witnessed police brutality and I am thoroughly aware of corruption in the government and in the Church (I am a member of that too). Nevertheless, I remain committed to a belief that individual Greeks are good while the system is flawed. I appeal to that, and also continue to fight for justice. I would have no qualms about asking the same questions of the British Government and indeed have urged the Foreign Office to redefine Torture to embrace all forms of inhuman treatment.
2007-09-21 08:12:51 · update #1
check out this posting for details of the Brazilian shooting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
2007-09-21 08:52:15 · update #2
check out this posting for details of the Brazilian shooting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
as far as I know his assailants have not faced a criminal court and regrettably there is no plan for them to do so. Of course this seriously compromises our efforts to seek justice elsewhere. But it should not stop us trying... I agree, if this is a tourist-forum, this is an inappropriate question. I judged the mood from some of the other postings which seem far removed from tourism.
That said, maybe tourists (like the planespotters) should have been forewarned that if they fall foul of the police, they will have a very tough time indeed.
Thanks Frank, anyway. It is appreciated.
2007-09-21 08:56:20 · update #3
maybe alexlascari, but you provide no email and hide your Qs and As. Not very open after all!
2007-09-21 09:54:07 · update #4
hello ,where r u from then?
2007-09-21 07:44:50 · answer #1 · answered by reifguy 6 · 6⤊ 3⤋
Why on earth do you assume I (or anyone else) do care where are you from? I just don't get why the heck one would ask such a question in a travel section and try to make a big fuss about Greece neglecting at best so many countries worldwide with far bigger crimes on immigrants. What's so fascinating about Greece mate? What's next? The Caicos islands? Is that the issue now?
No! Nothing ever happened to any of these guys (policemen). Are we happy? No. Do we need this? No. Do we care? we damn do. But then, the saddest thing is that this is exactly the case in most countries. The problem is not just in Greece. The army and the police of any nation are the last to get criticized in public. The church as well...
Those three powers have committed, are committing and will continue to commit the biggest crimes on this planet.
Now tell me you are surprised...
PS: Do you remember what happened to this poor Brazilian immigrant on London's tube last year? Got shot and killed "accidentally" by British policemen. Do you know what happened to those guys Tim? Do you care to know?
Not to seem arrogant here but I really think you need to see the movie "This is England". Quite moving I must say...
Then, is there a truly serious case for Greeks torturing...Mexicans and Afghans? Do you really have a firm idea what's going on with Mexicans and Afghans in the US? Pakis and Indians in the UK? Turks and Moroccans in Germany and the Netherlands? Algerians in France?...
Its a shame really because the last 10 years, I am traveling from Japan to Fresco to the down under and back and even in...Vermont, I have seen racism spreading all over.
2007-09-21 08:21:29 · answer #2 · answered by Frank B 3 · 10⤊ 5⤋
We are all against torture or any kind of abuse. However, there is a specific intention in accusing a specific country in a travel forum like this, as many have pointed out. If you are British as you say, why didn't you post this question in the British section, as torture is and has been practised by far more in or by Britain than in Greece? There have been films of Muslim UK citizens that were held and tortured for years without even having been officially acused or stood trial. And films of falsely accused Irish people, tortured in the past. And more to the past, Cypriots that were so badly abused that they were keeping them behind a wire mesh, so that their relatives would not see the wounds, and then they were buried in the jail after being executed, to hide evidence of the torture.
If I were British, I would really try to correct things in my own country, then the countries in which my involvement has created human rights problems (like Afghanistan, where teh Taliban took power when US and UK supported them to defeat the Soviets), then other countries where decapitations and stonings are part of the daily agenda (like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, etc.), then wannabe EU members where people are jailed for speaking their minds, then "European" countries where votes are being harassed and minorities are being treatened and nuns are raped, before accusing any other country for having 2 Albanians slap each other on the cheek, which is of course bad as well, no question about it.
2007-09-21 10:21:22 · answer #3 · answered by cpinatsi 7 · 5⤊ 4⤋
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2014-08-22 20:01:04 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Very strange.England helped Greece in 1946 baned and killed Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia. You used napalm bombs for women and little kids, since Greeks bayonets and knifes. Do you remember?Greece is your country, you give money for develop of Greece, you give money for help after fires, you should not criticize that what is yours.
Honestly, I though you are Albanian, or you have Albanian heredity.
Why TOEFL if you are English?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aosf31y1Ma08UKfnNEIHejjsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20070921122209AASbGId&show=7#profile-info-heB0Z2OHaa
2007-09-21 10:37:32 · answer #5 · answered by Denicia 6 · 3⤊ 3⤋
You shouldn't 'wonder why' because all people everywhere are aware of their enemies, or to put it in more politically correct terms, who to expect media manipulation from. Albanians are masters of this unworthy craft. Just a glance at your opinions voiced here, and your area of interest speaks for itself. Why would you be so interested in Greece and its media coverage of their internal affairs? The only other section you posted Q&A is Turkey, but with no similar hostile comments. Why? Aren't there any interesting cases of human rights violations in Turkey? Hmmmmm..... makes one wonder, doesn't it? Now, that's what I call strange and bizarre: a human rights activist with a selective approach, having eyes and ears ONLY to give Greece a bad image; very strange indeed.
2007-09-21 09:37:42 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 8⤊ 4⤋
Since you are British (?) and not Albanian (!) why then do you bother with Greeks and the Greek issues and not concentrate in British issues that would benefit your country?
Why not put your energy into protesting for something more meaningful to you and more beneficial to your people....like the war in Iraq? And maybe raise the question about atrocities by the British there....
Ohhh, maybe not, sorry I forgot this is a travel forum and you would not want to hurt "your" country with your negative comments here
2007-09-21 09:20:30 · answer #7 · answered by The_last_Amazona 3 · 6⤊ 6⤋
A "British" keen to defend human rights and prove to be anti-racist.
Apart from what Frank said, must I remind you of Process Diana's mysterious death after her having been sentimentally involved with an Arab?
What about British imperialistic former empire? Let's all remember british crimes and discriminations in India, for example. And as Dellarovere said, your crimes in Cyprous (Karalis-Dimitriou, do mean something to you?).
Even though you don't convience me you're British, let's talk about what you and Albanians have in common: Theft.
Your museums are full of stolen archeological treasures, the Parthenon Marbles to begin with, only that you are more sellective while Albanians steal more common things.
Ofcourse, this difference does not make you look better.
How dare you talk about Greek immigrants and compare them to Albanians?
My family "immigrated" to Italy some 30 years ago for professional reasons, and although we all came back, everybody in Rome still has a good word to say about us.
2007-09-21 09:26:00 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 5⤊ 8⤋
You say you're British. In that case, why wasting your time with Greece and not with the crimes of your own country all around the world? Aren't you the ones who committed hundreds of crimes against Greek Cypriots (gallows)? Aren't you the faithful allies of U.S.A. who approve and participate in any king of atrocity against humanity for the past 60 years? And you are trying to convince us that you're the fighter of human rights? You don't convince me with your persistence in defamation our country intentionally.
And in addition: Greeks immigrated to other countries, but they worked hard, they have been respecting the laws of the country they went to, many of them became recognized scientists and politicians, and they never slaughtered peasants, old women and men, even children, they never created a mafia, they never became the fear and terror of the country they immigrated to.
Enen in London there is a Greek community of distinct Greek shipowners who contribute too much to your (?) country's welfare.
So, give us a break, you are the least to criticise Greeks.
2007-09-21 08:36:33 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 10⤊ 8⤋
Noone must bite the hands that feeds him.
2007-09-21 08:13:54 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 7⤊ 7⤋