Cycling Continued?

Question

I am a newbie at this. These fish were handed down to me so i already had them and moved with them. There wasnt much i could do until a local pet store offered to take them. Basically my next question is about the ammonia lock. What if your water supply has ammonia in it? I heard that can happen. Im going by this sheet i got out of a starter kit for freshwater fish. I could be dumping ammonia in on my water changes if this is the case. My brother told me ammonia lock is not bad the ammonia might just come back...it says it protects the fish...obviously im just trying to do anything for my fish i can i realize its a process and you just have to wait but i dont want my fish to die and then sit there and wonder if it was something i did wrong or something i didnt do. cant you get special tests that rule out the ammo lock. ? My ammonia is off the charts so obviously its combinding all the ammonia even neutralized ammonia from the product. My ammonia and nitrates are soaring

Answer 1

First AmmoLock is not one of the better formulas for this. Prime is what most professionals use for ammonia or for chloramines.

Second, what Prime (and Amquel + as well do) is change the ionization of the ammonia whereby it is no longer toxic to the fish, however lab tests as well as my own trials show that this ionized ammonia is still available to nitrifying bacteria and thus do not interrupt cycling at all.

I recommend the use of Prime if your ammonia is high and the fish are present (it is best to cycle the tank before adding fish). I would also make 25% water changes and add seasoned filter media from a healthy aquarium to help establish your nitrifying bacterial colonies.

I am guessing that your nitrites are soaring, not nitrates as these usually take longer to peak and are not toxic except in larger prolonged amounts.

As for BioSpira, although I have not used this much, many of my colleges have (including Jon V here at Yahoo Answers) and have only achieved mixed results.

I would strongly recommend reading this article for up to date information about the Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

And please read this article about aquarium water conditioners:
http://aquarium-answers.blogspot.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html

Good luck :~)

EDIT:
Actually I am correct, and I can base this not only on field studies (as this is my profession) but on research of others.
Yes Ammolock is a poor choice for a cycling tank (as I stated), however so is standard Amquel. But Prime and Amquel + (although my results and others I also know are better with Prime) both do NOT interfere with cycling/nitrifying bacteria allowing this process to go on while the fish have less stress and poisoning from the ammonia. Of coarse this is only a quick fix and does not take the place of proper cycling procedures, but this is better than allowing ones fish to suffer with high ammonia.
Besides the before mentioned resources that I sited, here are more:
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/amquel+/index.htm
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

Answer 2

You are better off not to use Products like Ammolock or other ammonia blockers because they only bind the ammonia and don't remove it, which is why it still registers on tests. Also, it will slow down the cycling of the tank. Don't worry so much about ammonia in the water. Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? How much is really in it?

Tanks need ammonia to cycle. Your fish are producing ammonia all the time anyways. What you are trying to do is establish a colony of bacteria that will eat the ammonia and produce nitrite as a waste product. Once you have a large enough colony of this bacteria going, then you will have no ammonia because the bacteria will be eating it all. Then you will get a nitrite spike and you will begin growing a colony of new bacteria to eat the nitrite and produce nitrate as a waste product. It's the nitrate that is least toxic to fish. Once you have both of these bacterial colonies established and going strong in your tank adding a little bit of ammonia in with your regular water changes won't be a problem because you will have enough bacteria to eat it all. The trick is to get the bacteria going.

By using the ammonia binding products you are starving the first stage bacteria so that you can't get enough of them built up to deal with the amount of ammonia you are going to have in the tank normally. You have to let them grow, which means letting them have the ammonia to eat. It's going to hurt the fish if you have fish in the tank. There's really no way around it except through fishless cycling, or speeding up the process by adding bacteria through the use of Bio-Spira, Cycle or borrowing some from someone with an established tank (get some gravel, plants, etc. from a cycled tank).

If your nitrates are soaring then the good news is you probably already have 2nd stage bacteria growing in your tank. Now you need to do some water changes to get those nitrates down!

Answer 3

Alyson...if I understand you right, you have ammonia in your water? I do also at .50ppm! And that is straight out of the tap! I had a 10g Betta spawning tank that every time I tested it before and after a water change, it read .25ppm in a cycled tank! I did a test in my 6g and it read 0.0ppm before the change and .25ppm after the change. This is when I tested my tap.

I have to say that the suggestion by Carl S is pretty much what I do...I use prime to detoxify the ammonia in my tanks, and if I were to have fish as you do (meaning inheriting them), I'd be using prime to help keep my fish healthy. Most people on here would bash you for doing a cycle with fish in your tank. Prime will help the fish and keep them from being injured and otherwise unhealthy in the long run, or maybe even being killed.

I agree, Prime does not take the ammonia out, but it does detoxify it so it will not harm the fish. You will get a false reading on your tests, but better a false reading than to just do nothing in my opinion.

I have read many of Carl S' article/blogs. He has a lot of great info. I have changed much of how I keep fish due to reading what he offers as info. I hope you take the time to read his info.

Good luck with your fish, all of us were newbies at one time!

Answer 4

your ammonia is soaring because your tank is going through the cycling process

If you have already nitrates present, this is good, that means your tank is almost done cycling

But if you meant nitrites, then your tank is in the middle of cycling and will be converted to nitrates

Please stay away from any chemicals, they do more harm then good

The only thing you should be doing is waterchanges, i would do a 50% waterchange right now right away, to bring down your ammonia levels and keep your fish save, and keep doing 10% partial waterchanges until your tank is cycled
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php




Hope that helps
Good luck


EB

Answer 5

I'm sorry, but I had to hop in here too. I personally would take Carl S.'s information over a certain finger-pointing person's any day, hands down. Carl S. does this type of work PROFESSIONALLY and has done extensive research in to everything that he states, AND has the proof to back up what he is talking about. He spends much time researching and doing tests (sorry for lack of the correct terminology). His websites contain a myriad of information on so many things to do with fish AND water. I have come to use his websites and his knowledge as my own personal "fish bible", because everything I have ever taken off of his website has worked as he has stated. And again, he can back up any information he offers. I hold Carl in high regard and commend him AND thank him for even taking the time to come to this website to help others out. He gets paid to do this type of work and give this type of information and he works hard. Yet he still chooses to come here on his own time and help others out for free. You don't see that too often anymore. I would be sure to look at Carl's website(s) and see how much information he has to offer. Best of luck to you. ;o)

Answer 6

I would like to know how it is that Carl got 2 plus points and Ghost Shrimp Fan got 2 minus points when it's Carl who is wrong and Ghost Shrimp Fan who is right. Two have said this, let me make it three. Stay away from the Ammo Lock and any other ammonia binding product. It DOES NOT get rid of ammonia. It only binds the ammonia in an agent that temporarily makes it slightly less harmful, but it is still ammonia and it still exists in your tank and it is still harmful. The only thing that really happens is that you get false readings on your tests to lull you into a false sense of security thinking you don't have ammonia when you do. Prime is fine AFTER the tank is cycled (however, Amquel is better) because it does deal with chlorine and chloramine, which you do need to worry about and this product does completely rid the water of these things. But, as it does have the ammonia binding agent as well, it will mess with your readings during cycling, so don't use it then. With regard to your fears that your tap water has high ammonia, I doubt it. This is something that is dangerous and there are certain laws in place that require your local water supplier to remove from potable water. This is what treatment plants do. But, test your tap water to see if it does have ammonia. If by some odd chance it does, you are either going to need to buy bottled water or pre-cycle your tap water ahead of time before you add it to your aquarium. But, I really doubt your tap water has ammonia. As far as dealing with the cycle for now, you have to test every day and do 20-30% water changes 2-3 times a week, maybe every day, maybe 50% water changes, it's all just how you feel it needs to be done, just to keep the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates low until everything cycles. Let me just say, I am proud of you for taking on rescue fish and I am proud of you for wanting to do everything right and learn all about how to properly take care of fish. This desire alone will be all you need to have happy, healthy fish! Good, good luck!!!

Answer 7

My question to Venice Girl is did you even bother to read the resources Carl linked to?

That is what they are there for. They pretty much make the point.