Anti McCann, you need to update your argument now, keep up with what we are trying to debate.?

Question

Why is it that every 'anti' McCann resorts to the tried and tested line (ah but they are guilty of neglect) when pro's say, they are innocent until proven guilty, when we say that, you know that we mean innocent of murder as things stand today.

The neglect part of the case was debated fully in the begininng, it is way past that now.

I have seen virtually nobody disagree with the fact that leaving their children alone was neglectful.

When discussing this topic with Pro's try and come up with something new, or at least accept that we agree they were neglectful.

The pro's are agruing about the right to be innocent until proven guilty, what is wrong with that?

We are arguing that no evidence is supporting the suggestion that the McCanns were responsible for harming their child, why cant you accept that?

Hi Snaffle, to be honest, I have never really known a case of a childs disappearenc to have caused such a stir. I really do accept innocent until proven guilty, but I have had hunches that maybe the accused are guilty, like the anti mccanns (not my choice of words but its the way the camps are named on here) and yes of course people should discuss it, not for one minute would I suggest otherwise. Im just saying, ok we all agree on neglect, but we don't agree on murder, lets just discuss our reasons for this rather than bringing up the fact they were left alone, yes that was a contributing factor, but children have been abducted in the past, and not always because their parents had left them.

lol jeanetter are you having a joke... if so thats fine, it did make me laugh.

if not, please read the question again.

Hi Ladybugs, a good answer, but my questions is not about neglect anymore, as we all agree on that, my question is about being innocent until proven guilty of murder.

Ella, I think you have misunderstood my question!

I am talking about people on these boards.........lol

Answer 1

Yes, you're completely right, innocent until proven guilty.

You're allowed to talk about it though - surely?

Can I just ask for clarification on the so called 'proMcCann' stance (your words not mine) Did you remain this objective through every other murder investigation that has happened in your life or did you form a decision based on nothing but gut instinct and information? I'm just wondering, becasue I get the feeling that this might be different in other cases? If you did then you're to be utterly commended, you're a better person than I, or indeed anyone I know.

** Guys on here mentioning neglect - in light of the question I'm presuming you're practising the art of irony in your replies?!?


*EDIT* The evidence that anti camp would come up with is the body fluid/hair/car mileage/inconsistencies with the timings etc. The evidence the pro camp would come up with is innocent until proven guilty or gut feeling that they didn't do it. Everytime a new peice of information comes to light if it is discussed it gets shot down with the innocent until proven guilty comment. We know they're innocent until proven guilty - that isn't a 'pro' McCann stance, it is just a fact. The discussion of the physical evidence isn't an Anti McCann stance, it is just a discussion of evidence. The Pro and Anti comes in with personal comments directed at the couple whether good or bad. I think you can be swayed towards beleiving they did it without being Anti McCann. I personally have formed an opinion in my head that they could have done it, COULD, but that's becasue of evidence and behaviour, not becasue of what they wear or how they speak which seems to be what the pro camp accuse anyone who questions their guilt of doing.

Answer 2

In Portugal, (and in fact many places in Europe) people are actually still using the baby listening services. If the authorities charge the McCain's with child neglect, then they will have to charge EVERYONE who uses this service, whereby people are paid to stand at the door of your apartment, and listen to make sure your kids are asleep. The McCanns actually checked their kids on a more regular basis than the listening service would have. Ironically, it's the very people who use this service that seem to slag off the McCanns, as they think they are doing the right thing by their kids, because THEY happened to PAY for the service, instead of the D.I.Y. service the McCanns used. How many of these hypocrites dump their kids in a kids club to get a few hours peace from their kids whilst on holiday???

Answer 3

I like Snaffles arguments, but it isn't entirely true. You will often read someone saying "I know they are guilty because I am always right" or some such.
Again, too, we are not experts in the dna or forensics fields. Even though yesterday(?) someone wrote in, claiming to be one such, and then dragged his case into the mud bysaying he knew Kate McCann was guilty - because of her lack of grief. We canot cross-examine the evidence because we do not have access to the facts or the knowledge how to deal with it.
Nor do we have all the knowledge, either. So to say "innocent until proven guilty" isn't a cop out at all - it's just that we don't know! And we cannot be expected to know, and if we claim to do so, we are adding to the speculation and the rumours and lies.

Answer 4

Lexy because it is the only solid fact in this case. The only think we know to absolutely true. Had she not been left alone that night none of this would be happening. There would be no need for speculation, no need for saying innocent until proven guilty. Some of us can't get over the fact that the 2 people that caused this to happen by neglecting their kids are made out to be saints and so many people feel sorry for them. I feel personally it is opening a can of worms for others to leave their kids alone and get away with it. What will happen when an unfit parent of a lower class leaves her child alone and the child becomes injured and she has to stand before a judge. She can easily say well your honor, I didnt do anything differently then the McCanns why should I be punished? Sure everyone has a agreed they were neglectful...but for me personally I think Madeliene deserves some sort of justice at least for that because who knows if this case will ever be solved. I have stated many times..I don't think they should go to jail and I don't think they should lose the twins at least not permanantly. I do think they should be made an example however that child neglect is not a mistake or a simple act of poor judgment. Doesnt Madeleine at least deserve that?

Answer 5

I know they are guilty of neglect. Let's say that's the only thing their guilty of, then they have paid their dues because their daughter is now GONE.

I HOPE they didn't kill their little girl. I want her to be found alive and well. I don't know who did what, I just know that until they find Maddie I will continue to wish for the best. The best in this circumstance would be that some couple stole her for the sake of having a child and that she'll be found.

Unfortunately, the McCanns keep sticking their foot in their mouths and acting out of sorts and leading suspicion their way.

Who know? Maybe the little girl will be found in a couple days, today or ten minutes?

Answer 6

I cant accept that because if they hadnt left their children on their own, she would never have been in a situation where she could've been so easily snatched.

Neglect might have been debated here, but it hasnt been in the actual case, the police are obviously busy looking for Maddy/forensic evidence etc but now the McCanns are back in the UK, social services should be involved to make sure the twins are being looked after properly. It was extremely irresponsible leaving three under 5's, why social services havent stepped in and done something about this already is beyond me.

Answer 7

it is not the idea of parent haters; it is the point of a missing child who went missing under their watch, under their neglect; under their poor judgment and poor decision making; we have that as proof already; the children could have drowned in the ocean in a pool ; could have fallen; could have been abducted ; could have wandered ; all things are possible if not for the actions of these negligent parents who felt the need for social dinner over the safety and well being of 3 small children in their care; I feel sorry for whatever Madeline had to go through due to the stupidity of her parents; she should have been protected, safeguarded and loved enough to not have this happen through neglect of 2 educated physicians. You can't get past the neglect portion b/c if not for and through their actions, the little girl would be safe in her bed and had a great holiday; it demonstrates their character which sets the tone for past, present and future performance.

Answer 8

Oh Lexy, i think that the most vociferous of the antis have gone well beyond the issue of neglect. Dislike & spite has blinded them to objectivity. Its like they have a need to see the McCanns punished severely.

I do believe that most of them don't even believe that the McCanns murdered their Madeleine. The accusations & insinuations are just a vile sort of punishment they bestow in their perverted sense of justice.

I truly don't see any other logical explanation to their frenzy.

Answer 9

The questioner claims that 'I have seen virtually nobody disagree with the fact that leaving their children alone was neglectful'

I have - both Gerry and Kate McCann continue to say that they did nothing wrong and that they are 'very responsible parents'.

Answer 10

LOL...and they are still doing it in reply to this question!

Some people appear to have their brain on cruise control, and don't actually need to read the question. They see it's about the McCanns, so they then start adding ACME neglect accusations.

I have tried to argue the point about there being more than one element to the debate - neglect being one, and murder being another, but it appears to be in vain. Good luck trying!