Are Greeks xenophobes- question posed by ALBANIA POWER Greeks are xenophobs because of what ? Fear, jalousy,..

Question

the question seems reasonable to me. A glance at the yahoo submission and the recent petition against the torture of Albanian minors by the police suggests that there is institutional racism rather than xenophobia (fear). It is surely not fear that prompts torture but racism. The same can be said of the rise of LAOS, or indeed the torture of Necati Zontul ion 2001 and 165 others. So the question should be whether Greece shares this racism, is aware of the xenophobia that drives it, or whether (as I hope and suspect) it is confined to a very few (but influential) sectors in Greek society - specifically the police-force, army, Church and Government. And of course, it is possible to instance numerous policemen and women, Hierarchs in Greece and beyond who are sickened by the rise in racism and the surge in xenophobic propaganda.

role of Graffiti?

Much of the xenophobia recently has been orchestrated by the Church and its support for a number of far-right wing political movements

Question is whether the racism or xenophilia is shared by ordinary Greeks. It is about how far it goes, not whether or not it is there. And for thanks for that- I am not Albanian, nor American, and no longer live in Greece. I did, however, witness serious state-sponsored brutality there, and a catalogue of inept attempts by Pasok and ND to cover-it-up or to ignore it.

Answer 1

The question is reasonable enough - but you should not expect any Greek (except of course the nazi ones) to admit that they are xenophobes. They will only give excuses about the Albanians, the Romanians etc. who brought criminality in the "wholy land" where no crimes were ever committed in the 80's and the prisons were empty.
Jokes apart, yes, some institutions like the police and the church are indeed xenophobic - preaching on the supremacy of the Greek civilisation and religion. But no one expects progressive thoughts from these institutions - nor from parties like Laos. I would say, judging from the elections' results that a 5-8% of the population is racist, a big majority is indifferent and happy to exploit cheap working force, and there is a lot of people (regardless of parties or position in the governmental system) who fight for the right of the immigrants to have a decent life and are happy when they prosper (i.e there are so many people working for NGOs who support legal or illegal immigrants). These people are those who still remember that everybody in this country has at least one emigrant in their families. And I hope that they are more than I suspect.
As for the graffiti, such insults can be found in every european country - as Frank B already wrote. Of course, this does not justify such an attitude.
Good luck in your new country.

Answer 2

there's a small subject with the above wonderful thought!!! The Albanians are first pronounced in 14th - fifteenth century advert. at the same time as Greeks and Greek mythology exist because 1500 BC. in an attempt to have self assurance that the Greeks have stolen Greek mythology (that's regular for the final 4000 years as Greek) from the Albanians who've a recent and limited history is amazingly wonderful and fairly stupid!! by how who pronounced this ridiculous thought?? some loopy characters from Tirane i assume!! that's much extra ridiculous than what the Slav-Macedonian enthusiast (the Pseudo-Macedonians purely) propose!!! properly please study my answer I gave interior the question you point out and you will see how I answer all their arguments that are fairly consumer-friendly breakable!! i think of we choose so humorous arguments so as that we can lough!!!

Answer 3

Your question does not concern Greece. It does concern the world since human existence.

Show me one nation that welcomes its economic immigrants...

Is it the Netherlands? huge protests and racism all over the country against the Turks and Moroccans is an everyday issue.

Is it Germany? have a read on the news and the numerous racist actions that also include murder.

Is it the States? ask Mexicans or any other from Latin America.

Is it France? ask the Algerians, the Moroccans or other Africans (remember the fires in Paris last year?)

Is it the UK? ask the Pakistanis, the Indians or now days any from the former eastern block countries

Greece is no exception to the rule.

Interestingly, Greeks do not show racism against the Germans, British, Americans or others that live by the thousands permanently in the Greek islands or elsewhere in the country and keep up with descent living standards

Greeks seem also not to be that xenophobic. If they were, they would not have 17 million tourists every summer (and the number keeps rising).

As in every other case, Greeks are against illegal immigration, abuse of a weak system that can hardly tolerate and absorb illegal immigrants and the associated crime that comes with it.

And this is not a Greek problem. This is an international problem that concerns the developed world.

Other than that, the church, the army or the police will always hide conservative elements. As in any other country. And that includes yours as well. Unless you think that the Pope is so liberal...

Smarten up.

Answer 4

My friend,I won't say you are from Albania or anything.I do get though from your question you are a foreigner who used to live in Greece.I don't know how many years ago that was or where you used to live.I can tell you from personal experience,that yes,Greeks aren't always the nicest to foreigners living in their country,my mother is dutch and I was often called "albanaki" or something like that during my childhood.The same went for my brother and sister.Also my mother has told me that when she first moved to Greece she was often ignored by the shopowners even when she said what she wanted in greek.Keep in mind though that I am talking about 20 years in the past.
Nowadays,i think Greece is very multicultural and cases of xenophobia are less each day.Of course you will always have people who are xenophobic and racists as those people exist in every society.I also believe there is a difference in the way foreigners from Western European countries are treated than the foreigners from Eastern european countries are.This difference has a lot to do with the way those foreigners behaved when they first moved to the country.There were a lot of criminals amongst them,as there were good people.But,like in every other case,the bad was "promoted" against the good,so many Greeks got a negative view of those people,even if that is unfair to them,since not all of them are criminals or bad persons.
To close my answer,the reason why the other user Abania power was attacked was not because he asked a question about xenophobia in Greece but because he asked a series of provocative questions attacking Greece and we had so many similar incidents in this section lately that it's only natural to be defensive when this kind of thing happens.
Last but not least,to my greek co-patriots and friends,I don't think it's fair to say that albanians got everything they have because we "gave it to them" or "thanks to Greece".I know a lot of albanians who are hardworking people,never harmed anyone and live in our society in peace.I think most albanians that made something of themselves and bettered their lives here did so because they worked really hard to succeed,and most of them are greatful they were given a chance to better their lives in our country,so lets not generalize here,saying they owe everything to us.

Answer 5

You got a lot of answers and I just want to mention one aspect of it:
That question was clearly - a provocation.
Asker was albanian propagandist whose questions were about Greece (all of them) in very negative way. So I don't think that question can be reasonable at all. Its only goal was provocation and propaganda against Greece, not reasonable debate.
Xenophobia is a greek word, but xenophilia is too.

Answer 6

Albanians have prospered in Greece. Albania was a country that, due to the communist regime, didn't even have minimal amenities, like electric ovens etc., until recently (at least as i have been told by a lady from Albania who now lives in Greece). They got jobs here, education, made money, bought houses, and their entire country has prospered due to Greece's influence. Your friens Albanian Power wouldn't have a computer if it hadn't been for Greece. If there are xenophobic incidents in Greece, it id because the Albanian mafia (who is also behind the stealing and trafficking of Albanian children) has brought criminality in this country, that never before existed. But in general Albanians find jobs and are well integrated in our society, even illegal ones, and they'd have no reason to complain if they were the least grateful for what we have given them.

Answer 7

So, now that you have concluded what are you going to do about it?
I understand that living in a country with xenophobes is a big problem for you.
Isn't it more appropriate to leave from this awful country that doesn't meet your standards?

We admit that we are xenophobes. What's next?

Maybe we should also admit that Albanian country was expanded to Peloponnisos or that is an Albanian minority deprived of her rights to the strict, undemocratic greek state?

Answer 8

A few points: to the first guy- yes, this is an unclear posting, but the question is contained in the paragraph- do ordinary Greeks share the xenophobia and racism of the state? "So the question should be whether Greece shares this racism, is aware of the xenophobia that drives it, or whether (as I hope and suspect) it is confined to a very few (but influential) sectors in Greek society"

As I know the man who posted, I should point out he is not Albanian, and no longer living in Greece so some of the jibes you have printed here are a bit silly. However, no point in stirring that for the record, I am also no longer in Greece and neither of us is American! there is no need to string this one out needlessly: here are the links to the graffiti issues.

"OUT WITH THE FOREIGNERS!! “Dream of a day without Foreigners. All of them (wherever they come from) are criminals and steal from us. One day, Greece will be a paradise again without Foreigners. Long Live Greece! " in Aghia Paraskevi
"Foreigners Out" on waste bin Aghia Paraskevi
"exo oi ebraioi" "exo oi xenoi" "exo oi Albanoi. Xrysi aygh. ellas"( Corinth-tripoli byepass) (noted by GHM) http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=2723

http://hellenicnationalist.blogspot.com/2006/12/racist-graffiti.html
the yahoo submission in question is, I think, the YOUTUBE broadcast which can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCc7xc8hxDQ

Answer 9

Oh, yeah? Come and live in Greece, see things with an objective view and then we can discuss about greeks being xenophobic or only "albanophobic".
In the villages people shut and double lock their doors upon sunset, and in the cities one can hardly feel safe to walk alone at night.
What about their breaking into houses, rob everything, steal also the keys of the cars and then disappear in their country for a while, sending their auxiliary troops to continue while they hide?
Find yourself in the the same situation, and then come and talk again.

Answer 10

There is no xenophobea in Greece. Egyptians, Syrians, Paqistani and other ethnic groups of immigrants live here under no discretions, keeping even their shops, cafeterias, etc, and coexisting friendly with Greeks in their neighbouhoods.
But with Albanians the case is completely different. Initially they have been warmly accepted and hosted by Greek people, but after a short while the have proven to repeat themselves through history:

Starting from what their gangs of bandits have done to our country until the revolution of 1821.

Continuing with their crimes against the Greek minority of Northern Epirus.

Going further to the Genocide of Serbian people in Kosovo, where also bysantine churches of monumental value have been desecrated and robbed of their equipment, monateries have been destroyed and nuns of all ages raped.

And concluding to what they do to our country and its people for 25 years, killing, stealing, smuggling, and being involved in all kinds of criminal activities.

Not to mention threats, insults, burning our flag in public etc.

Now Italy is begining to suffer the consequences of their expansion.

So, one cannot talk about xenophobea but about self defence of an nation that suffered and still suffers by Albanian instictive aggresivity, as well as their inclination to criminality, fanatic nationalism and even imperialistic plans.