For years we've been told to look to Europe for lessons about health care. This time, maybe we should.?

Question

Have you heard about government controled medicine...?
the left thinks it is sooo grand!!

i can come up with a million reasons to keep the government out of my pockets!
can they think of one?

Europeans are now learning some hard facts of life about socialized medicine: there's no such thing as a free lunch. The question is whether Congress will learn from Europe's mistakes as it takes the next steps in reforming the American health care system.

For many years advocates of government-run health care pointed to Europe as an ideal, noting that America was the "only industrialized country without a national health care system." Now, however, the European welfare states are slashing benefits in the face of rising health care costs.

A recent front-page story in the New York Times detailed the European cutbacks. According to the article, Britain, France and Germany are all being forced to limit access to care. Rationing, already extensive, is increasing.

The Europeans have run into a very simple economic rule. If something is perceived as free, people will consume more of it than they would if they had to pay for it. Think of it this way: if food were free, would you eat hamburger or steak? At the same time, health care is a finite good. There are only so many doctors, so many hospital beds and so much technology. If people overconsume those resources, it drives up the cost of health care.

The same problem is besetting the American health care system. The vast majority of American health care is not directly paid for by the person consuming those goods and services. Instead, a third party, either the government or an insurance company, pays the bill.

Medicare is exhibit one. Medicare beneficiaries pay almost nothing out of their own pockets for health care. Under Medicare Part B, for example, the deductible is an absurdly low $100. (There is, however, a 20 percent copayment.) The deductible under Part A is higher, $716 on the first 60 days of hospital care for each spell of illness. There is also a copayment required for hospitalization of longer than 60 days. However, nearly 70 percent of the elderly have some form of "medigap" insurance that covers all or part of the deductibles and copayments.

Thus, recipients have little incentive to be good consumers and avoid unnecessary expenses or seek the best deal for their dollar. Guy King, former chief actuary for the Health Care Financing Administration, says that third-party payment is one of the primary causes of the rapid growth in Medicare expenditures. As King explains, "When people, either patients or doctors, are spending other people's money, they do not worry about the cost or number of services consumed."

The establishment has responded to this problem by trying to force seniors into managed care, thereby allowing insurance companies to ration care. But managed care does not change the underlying incentive structure created by pervasive third-party payment. Any reduction in costs is achieved by limiting access to treatment.

A report by the Department of Health and Human Services' inspector general found "pervasive" quality problems throughout managed care programs for Medicare, including difficulties in gaining access to care. Managed care programs are significantly less likely to use diagnostic tests, such as MRI and CAT scans, than are fee-for-service plans. Doctors report that managed care organizations pressure them to save money even at the cost of quality. One-third of doctors surveyed by the American Medical Association in 1988 stated that patients were harmed by delays or nontreatment as a result of managed care.

Although the election season has temporarily taken Medicare off the table, the issue will be back to haunt the president and Congress next year. Indeed, the most recent report of the Medicare system's Board of Trustees warns that the program faces bankruptcy in just five years.

The question is whether we will recognize the problems of third-party payment and restore consumer incentives by increasing deductibles and allowing recipients to choose medical savings accounts or follow the European example and ration the health care that our seniors depend on.

Answer 1

There is so much I desperately want to warn people about the nightmare of Socialized medicine. I know all about it. I'm living the nightmare here in Europe.

The most important things to consider are this:

1) Think your doctor is apathetic and callous now? Ha!! Just wait until medicine is Socialized. He'll probably practice his golf putting while you're still in the examination room. Doctors under Socialized medicine can't care less.

2) Only 15% of Americans don't have adequate or any health insurance. The majority of them can afford it. They choose not to. Look at how many "poor" people have cable tv, drink coffee at Starbucks, have designer clothing, women with expensive hairdos and guys dressed in Fubu and gold chains. It's all a matter of priorities.

3) In all countries with Socialized medicine, you do not get a real appointment. You sit like a chump in a crowded, dirty waiting room with dozens of other hapless souls. So now, besides just paying for Loquitia and her six out-of-wedlock kids, you are forced to sit with the ill-mannered, raucous little brats.

Sound like fun?

Here is an analogy:

When I was young, we belonged to a nice country club with a pool and tennis courts. Membership was limited to 300 families, so it would not get too crowded. Summers were idyllic. We would often go there at 7am for swim lessons, and stay till 10pm, having eaten lunch there, and been joined by our dad who would bring food for us to grill, just as many other families did. It was a real club in the sense that everyone knew each other. Going to the club was the absolute core of our summers.

Then, it got sold to the Park District. They filled in the deep end of the pool so they wouldn't have to worry so much about anyone drowning. The pool was ridiculously crowded, noisy, and unpleasant. Mothers would just drop their kids off and leave. So many unsupervised children made it a nightmare. The place was dirty, and you could never swim laps because it was overrun by so many people.

Now you understand what will happen if private medical care is replaced by Socialized medicine.

Popular reporter John Stossel pointed out that Americans go to the doctor much more often than any other people on the planet, and take way, way more prescription drugs. We are also the fattest country on earth, and Socialized medicine would just be an excuse for people to demand fast, easy cures for their "obesity disease".

So, what do you want? A nice country club, or the nightmare of a dirty, over-crowded public pool?

Answer 2

Let's talk real life here.
I had two experiences with the American health care system this summer. First, I had a trip to the emergency room for a hand injury from a home repair accident. Second, I went for an angiogram and wound up with a quadruple heart bypass.
The doctors, nurses, and technicians were all excellent. The hospital and staff were efficient and kind. My treatment was totally first class.
I am just an unemployed 61 year old not quite old enough for Social Security. My insurance paid for everything. So, paying the premiums for all these years paid off. I won't say cheap, but still affordable.
Do I want my taxes doubled to pay for deadbeats and illegals? I think not. A safety net is needed for the working poor and other needy folks. The majority of families in America make over $40,000 annually. I am sorry for those whining, but that should be enough to pay for basic health insurance premiums. So what else is more important?

Answer 3

Ok I think the length of your question is scaring people. I do understand what your getting at. My great grandparents live in England and she has a heart condition that could be fixed with nitro pills but the MD there will not Rx them for her. They believe in preventative care not therapeutic. In England if the treatment of your condition is going to be more expensive than pallative care and your an aged person then your not getting the medicine to make you better. Your just going to be comfortable. Of course the US is going to put a price (income bracket) on health care for children. How can they expect parents to keep insurance on thier children much less them selves when the price of gas, insurance, energy and mortgage payments go up monthly it seems. No one lives a comfortable life style in the US unless you make 3 figures a year or lie about the amount of money you make so the government gives you assistance. I feel that doctors make too much. Hospitals make too much. It's health care for God's sake. Make frivilious things more expensive so that the normal average family can care for their health. Of course it would also be nice if some of the less than intelligent people in this nation woulld stop sending money to other countries until the people here are taken care of.

Answer 4

years ve told europe lessons health care time

Answer 5

Ever have an original thought? Doubt it since all you can do is cut and paste a right wing hack job off some website, that said Medicare is actually a great program runs with just a 1% overhead, the problem here lies primarily with politicians from both parties raiding set asides that should be sacred and off limits in thier attempts to fund projects without rasing taxes, that said if you think you are not already paying healthcare for the inpoverished you're an idiot, everytime someone who is uninsured uses an ER you pay via higher insurance costs and hospital caosts, ever hear of the $10.00 aspirin? You pay that because you're not smart enough to elect politicians who will actually address the healthcare crisis in this country so keep whining about socialized healthcare and paying for it one way or another, some of us would rather confront the issue and deal with it, also this is America we're supposed to be the most innovative nation on the planet so are you suggesting we're not smart enough to make this work, how unpatriotic is that

Answer 6

Better than asking the libs to come up with a single reason for the government controlling healthcare is to ask a liberal for a single successful program other than the military that the government controls that has worked and/or reduced the cost for that type of program.

Since the welfare system was put into place, there has not been a single one.

Answer 7

Personally I don't care how good of an idea it appears to be, the Federal Government has no business involving itself in the Health Care Industry nor the Insurance Industry. If individual States wish to pursue the goal of offering affordable insurance to all of their population that is their business. But the Federal Government should butt-out!

.

Answer 8

The biggest difference is you have, one, a FOR PROFIT Healthcare system (which Insurance companies have a stranglehold on, with their stupid, generic HMOs) and you have the NON PROFIT Healthcare system, which removes the Insurance Industry, (currently making $10s of billions a year on OUR insurance premiums) Take Insurance and their markups out of the equation and GEE! All of sudden it's not so expensive to run a hospital when you don't have to charge patients $45.00 for two aspirin they don't even get.

Why are you so in favor of Insurance companies leeching off your hard-earned healthcare dollars? Since you don't want some faceless bureaucrat in Washington telling you what drugs to take, but you have no problem PAYING some faceless bureaucrat at some health insurance company (whose first strategy in dealing with claims is, DENY DENY DENY) to do the same thing? Do you think your insurance co cares one iota for your health? Why do you think they routinely deny claims for expensive, lengthy treatments? BECAUSE IT CUTS INTO THE PROFITS. Remove profit as a motivator, and you return genuine caregiving to the Medical Profession.

Remove profits from drugs and you will start seeing CURES again, rather than just treatments. With a for PROFIT system, there's no PROFIT in cures. There's MEGA-PROFIT in treating someone for years for some condition they have had to learn to live with, or die with.

Why do you hate poor Americans so much? Can you just not understand the principle behind the concept of, if EVERYONE is paying into the system, then everyone can BENEFIT from the system? You will ALWAYS have people who won't go to the doctor, but this i sno different thatn those of us who are childless, we get no special tax break even though we have no children in public schools. Why are you wanting to be a stooge for the Insurance Industry?

Answer 9

Yes, Europe is having a huge problem with illegal immigration, which is why they have to cut back on health care.
This is the same reason USA citizens have seen their health care costs sky rocket!

Nobody wants to pay for a free loader!

Answer 10

With all its faults, America still has the best doctors and hospitals in the world. Do we want to mess with that level of quality for socialized medicine? I don't think so.