Theseus' ship?

Question

I think Plutarch originally mentioned this paradox:

A ship said to have been Theseus' was preserved in the harbor of Athens for centuries as a memorial. Periodically parts of the ship would need to be replaced, and ultimately over time every single piece of the original ship had been replaced. The question then arose, is it still Theseus' ship?

The issue can be highlighted by imagining that when they were replacing the parts, the pieces of the original ship were collected and saved, and then put together to form another ship of identical design. Which one now is Theseus' ship?

Buddhist philosophy has a similar story about a chariot (King Milinda's). For the Buddhists the conclusion is that there is really "no such thing" as a chariot. It's all just parts arranged in a certain pattern -- in effect it's more of an event than a substance -- it's only as a matter of convenience that we designate such a pattern/ event as a "chariot." There's really "no chariot."

Your perspective?

Answer 1

Yes form is emptiness but emptiness is form, enlightenment flowers.

Answer 2

I suppose that we believe in illusions. Perhaps what we call truth are just patterns of thought that we have arranged in a certain way that suits our own particular sensibilities. Usually, we are told what a "ship" or a "chariot" is at a very young age, before our brains are developed enough to discern whether what we are being told is true or false.
We are reluctant to let go of those "truths" because they are so familiar, like mashed potatoes and gravy, a sort of comfort food for the mind.
If we take the metaphor of Theseus' ship and compare it to ourselves, meaning the "I" that I believe myself to be, then as we change our thoughts and beliefs, as we grow intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually, we must ask, "Am I now the "me" that I have always believed myself to be?"


edit: I read CosmicCoyote's answer and I thought about music; it is not the note that makes the music but the space, the silence, between the notes that makes it.

Answer 3

It goes to prove what a friend of mine likes to say: the point isn't to find the story, the point is to understand the story. Whether the ship is or isn't Theseus' ship is immaterial to the story of Theseus. It may be an interesting artifact for scholars and historians to pore over. But it won't tell us whether Theseus really sailed into Athens with a black sail and whether his father cast himself into the sea at the sight of the sail and gave his name to the Aegean sea. Much less can it tell us of labyrinths and minotaurs and other fantastic things. And above all, it cannot disclose what these things may mean. For meaning is found within one's own mind and heart. The ship then becomes an image to remind us of the meaning that is already within - and that internal truth, paradoxically perhaps, makes it far more Theseus' Ship than any material property.

Peace to you.

Answer 4

Does it matter? Each 7 years, your skin will have regenerated. Can you be the same you as you were then when all of your skin is now new. Each cell and organ system in your body gets replaced. To that we can add, That we have organ transplantation, people are being rebuilt. How many organs systems need to be replaced before you/we would no longer consider themselves. Add in a few blood transfusions and a bone marrow transplant and the person listed on the birth certificate is no longer the same.

Answer 5

The question boils down to ..
..Is it or isn't it.
This whole is from the perspective of our mind.And if everything that I am is the same thing that I have been, it is.
Besides...
Does it matter in which cup you take your tea as long as it is tea.?
The ship or the chariot does not matter but what matters is that which designate these or the beacon that these symbolize.

Answer 6

A beautfully scholarly question.
Two enlightened and insightful answers.
What can I add?
'ave a star, mate.

Answer 7

good question but i dont know the answer