Are most “progressives” isolationists?

Question

I just asked this question:
Why do “progressives” have a problem with America trying to ensure Iraq has a moderate secular government?

Most of the answers indicate that you believe we should just hole up and not worry about tyrannical governments. You claim to care about helping others but, apparently only when it benefits your agenda or if it does not allow you to bash conservatives or President Bush.

captain_koyk - I don't know if you meant it or not but, that is a horrible attempt at a spin. I mean really, if I were 16 again I would I want to smack my forehead and say duh.

Just because we want secure borders (as do 83% of all Americans) doesn’t mean we want to just hole ourselves in.

captain_koyk - again… we are already spread thin in Afghanistan and Iraq where people really needed help. I am about to loose my patience here…

WTF DUDE?!?! Have you forgotten the Taliban and the Baathists atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan? People were being tortured for the sadistic pleasure of Saddam and his sons. They used gas on hundreds of thousands of their own people! Women had ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHTS IN Afghanistan and “honor” killings were frequent...

Why do you revel in ignorance? Truth hurts doesn't it? Facts don't matter to you do they?

I would like to see us interceding everywhere there was misery. One thing at a time man...

Shinobi Sidewalk – Thanks for the compliment man…

‘However you wouldn't like it if your neighbor kicked in your door and told you want to do?’

I view this as being similar to police in my neighborhood. I want them there because if they weren’t my neighborhood would be overrun by criminals.

Humans are not inherently good by nature, that’s why we have to raise our kids to be good people. (there are exceptions)

I know I know… the first thing that comes to my mind is Team America World Police but, if we didn’t do it who would?

There are really bad people out there and if we just sat back and drank our latte’s they would eventually overrun the world and we would not be able to keep them down. They are like fire ants, not that bad one mound at a time but, if you don’t smack them down a few times per summer, they will overrun your yard.

captain_koyk – It is screwed up over there, BIG TIME. I don’t deny that.

Can we install a democracy? I don’t really know. I think they may have been so backwards for so long that it will be impossible. They need to have their own enlightenment and revolution and discover that a secular moderate government is the way to go…

But we are there, and we need to succeed in at least stabilizing the region instead of just throwing our hands up and saying, “oh well, we screwed up here, lets just go home”. That would be more wrong than going there in the first place.

Thank you all for your great input... I have a lot to think about.

Damn… 3 to choose from –
Shinobi Sidewalk - Your right we can't sit back and wait to be overrun, but you also can't attack off bad information.

justgoodfolk – Your whole write up is just outstanding.

Ndqbill - This is called integrity…

You all really make me think…

Answer 1

We can NOT pay for it!!!!!!
9 trillion in debt!!!!!!!!
What don't you get??????

Answer 2

Usually no but with the unpopularity of the Imperialistic,I don't believe and the actions on the ground proof it's not about bringing democracy, Bush foreign policy, the polar opposite isolationsim has gained momentum.

Progressives usually are internationalists.I sure don't believe in turning our back to the rest of the world.I can see how people are enchanted by Ron Pauls stand on the war after the Bush fiasco, but they don't fully understand why he stands there.I've said this before.If you understand what Ron Paul stands for and you like him you can be a liberal but only in the calassical sense but you certainly are not a progressive.

Isolationism has been tried and failed before.It's also very anti social,I don't think those who suppoort Paul and consider themselves liberal or progressive understand that.Isolationsim is definetely a right wing trait usually.Being in favor of Isolationism effects more thyan war alone.If you choose that you trun your back on Africa too

My critisism of the Neocon ideology if you want to believe(wich I already said I don't) that it really was about bringing freedom and Democracy,if the goals really are that noble then that's a Utopian ideology and there are signs that do point in that direction.I think they lied but maybe the overoptimistic prognoses,greeted as liberators,don't think six months, were about naivite typical for Utopian thinking.

I prefer a balance and believe war is sometimes needed.Isolationists wouldn't even have supported Europe under Nazi occupation.I also once again want to point out that choosing isolationism effects more than defense alone.
I generally(not totally)liked the Clinton foreign policy.

The excecution of the plan in Iraq and Afghanistans was also very poor,seemed to be make it up as you go along and always grab and run with the most optimistic predictions.Afghanistan is more inmportant than Iraq IMO.Syria and Iran are needlessly demonized while Iran helped defeat the Taliban and Syria did dirty work for the CIA in regard to enemy combatants.

Answer 3

You really are "loosing it".

BY DEFINITION,progressives,progressive liberals ideologically and philosophically believe in and stand for a base set of values.

They are INTERNATIONALIST and NOT ISOLATIONISTS.In fact the historical record attest to the fact that in the US and worldwide ,it is the conservatives that are the isolationalists.I use the term "internationalists" in the braod sense ,not in the narrow sense of trade only as do the conservatives.

That you have lived this long and do no realize that progressives are ALL ABOUT democracy,freedom AND liberty not only for ourselves but all humans ,IS AMAZING.

PROGRESSIVES hate/abhor DICTATORSHIPS.

There is absolutely not only NO evidence for the assertions you have made but all the evidence in the world past and present for the very opposite.

Why do you keep up SOME of these inane questions??

On what bases intellectual or otherwise would anyone draw any conclusions whatsoever on a subject of this nature based upon a few answers on this small board ?? It certainly IS NOT on any meaningful EVIDENCE.

Are you simply deliberately like ROVE merely trying top spin your views by totally mis-representing those of others ??


I have NEVER seen any progresive with ANY problem ensuing a moderate secular government but IRAQ is all about much more profound moral and legal principals than a secular government .

Yes ,progressives ALWAYS BASH lying dirt bags BE THEY BUSH OR WHOEVER that base an illegal war of choice on a pack of filthy lies that has seen the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Your failure to join us in this condemnation of this crime against humanity speaks to who you are and NOT to who we are for we are self assured/confident in who and what we are.

Please do not take this last statement as my declaration of any moral or intellectual superioity on my part.

Take it simply as a FACT based upon MY MORAL/ETHICAL code and MY demandiing of myself to always act in conformity with my stated beliefs.This is called integrity.

If You or others do not share the values upon which the above is based,that is fine ; we are just "DIFFERENT", not "better" or "worse".

Answer 4

I am all for getting rid of Tyrannical governments.

However you wouldn't like it if your neighbor kicked in your door and told you want to do?

The world is a complicated place and the shoot first, ask questions later mindset, won't get people to like the U.S.

Get rid of the terrorists yes do it, but don't tell country leaders it's has to be like this or else?

What if Russia came to the U.S and tried to make us into a Communist regime, would you like that?

Edit: Really good questions by the way!

Edit: The police are not always around when you need them are they. So you are going to need to stand up for yourself, right?

Your right we can't sit back and wait to be overrun, but you also can't attack off bad information.

We have the CIA, the NSA and other organizations for a reason. I want them to do their jobs correctly first.

Whether you believe it or not, this Iraq war is not only pissing off the radical Islamic terrorist groups, but a lot of other countries as well. I don't know about you but I really don't want to worry about going to war with the likes of Russia or China who happen to be in good terms with Iran!

Answer 5

Funny, it has been the traditional CONSERVATIVE position that we should worry about protecting our own borders. so this question could be asked in reverse

Also -- I don't believe I see troops in the darfur region, where people really need help, only in an oil rich region where terrorists were NOT, but are NOW.

Logic doesn't phase you clowns does it?

I Don't mind Afghanistan and was behind that mission from day one, it's the complete and total, mind bogglingly expensive SNAFU of Iraq that you people keep lying about that galls me.

You think it's better in Iraq NOW than when Saddam was - AFTER we gave him the testiclectomy?

Yet ANOTHER LIE -- once you've stepped in a huge pile of crap OF COURSE you need to clean it off your shoe -- but this pile of crap NEVER NEEDED TO BE STEPPED IN and you lying asp clowns keep saying it WAS

LIE #2 -- NO ONE is saying "lets just throw up our hands" -NO ONE! - we are all just trying to figure out HOW to clean the crap off our collective shoe while you clowns wave the flag and sing God bless America