Just as relief pitchers are finally getting into the Hall of Fame (Sutter, Fingers, Eckersley) the DH position

Question

should get in and thus, Edgar (Gar) Martinez should pave the way and become the first main DH to be elected into the HOF when he becomes eligible in 2010. Sure, Paul Molitor is in and he played some DH and so did a few other players who are in, but after the first 4 or 5 years of his career, Edgar became the most dominant DH in history for the final 13 years of his career. He played his entire career with the Seattle Mariners from 1987-2004, and his career numbers were: 2,055 Games, 7,213 At Bats, 1,219 Runs, 2,247 Hits, 514 Doubles, 15 Triples, 309 HR's, 1,261 RBI's, 1,283 Walks, 1,202 Strikeouts, .312 Batting Average, .418 On Base % and .515 Slugging %. Wow, awesome numbers. Edgar was an all-star 7 times, Silver Slugger Award winner for the AL 5 times, American League Batting Champion 2 times in '92 and '95, and many other statisical category leaders.

Martinez is considered by some to be the greatest designated hitter (DH) in history. Edgar Martinez, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, and Lou Gehrig are the only players in history with 300 home runs, 500 doubles, a career batting average higher than .300, a career on-base percentage higher than .400 and a career slugging percentage higher than .500.

This stat I just mentioned is incredible. You have to put in Edgar. He is a first ballot Hall of Famer, MARK MY WORDS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Martinez

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martied01.shtml

Too even mention Big Papi in the same sentence with Edgar Martinez is an insult. First off, David Ortiz is huge, and he's a left handed hitter with a short porch in right field at Fenway, plus he's in the middle of the steroid era. Martinez was a Doubles man and all field hitter, plus that 1995 hit he had against the Yankees in the playoffs that scored Griffey and put Seattle on the map. Big Papi in the HOF, i'm laughing in my bowl of Wheaties man.

Edgar wasn't just a DH, look at his stats on baseball-reference.com he played something like 591 games in the field, 3B and 1B and around 1,500 as a DH.

Answer 1

Martinez was an absolutely brilliant hitter -- a more worthy choice for AL MVP in 1995 than either winner Vaughn or monster Belle to my thinking -- and yes, he will be the first great acid test for DHs in Cooperstown.

I'd vote for him. I hope many writers see him similarly.

Consider he had teammates named Griffey and Rodriguez and STILL sometimes, often, put up a better season at the plate.

Answer 2

Edgar Martinez is not a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer. As a righthanded hitter with a .312 lifetime BA, over 500 doubles, more walks than strikeouts (although a lot of strikeouts) and a 7-time All-Star, he deserves consideration. But 309 homers and just 2,247 hits (about the same as Don Mattingly, who will never get in) in one of the best hitters' stadiums of all time, the Kingdome, when he didn't play a defense-minded position like catcher, second base or shortstop, will hurt him. (A player at one of those positions with 300 homers should be in, that's like 500 at any other position.) He might get in, but not the first time. After that, it depends on who else is a first-time-eligible in each given year.

David Ortiz does not have a short porch in RF at Fenway. It's 302 to the pole but 380 to straightaway right. That said, he's still well behind the career stats necessary for Hall election. Getting off to a late start as far as his big hitting numbers are concerned hurts him, but the clutch hits and/or postseason success will help. Right now, the fairest thing to say is that he's a question mark, clutch hits or no, postseason success or no.

Answer 3

I respect your opinion and I certainly agree that Edgar Martinez is head and shoulders above any other DH who has yet played, however the game of baseball was designed to be played both offensively and defensively. I still believe that if not for the DH, Paul Molitor would NOT be in the Hall of Fame. As far as David Ortiz is concerned, he is nothing more than a really big guy who is generally out of shape and relies on the DH just to stay in the game. Ortiz is not nor will he ever be a hall of famer.

As far a relief pitchers and "Saves" are concerned, most are irrelevant. The "Save" might be the most meaningless statistic in the books.

Let's put it this way, if Edgar Martinez is one day elected into the Hall, I would not have a problem with it based on his numbers. However if he is never elected I would not have a problem with that either based on the original guidelines of a major league baseball player. (The ability to play both offense and defense).

Answer 4

Martinez is not the typical DH. He was actually decent defensively at 1B and 3B when he played there, but they moved him to DH because he kept getting hurt in the field.

He was a terrific hitter. I think he just falls short of the HOF standard because he didn't have quite a long enough career, and didn't contribute much defensively during his career. I don't have a problem with a DH in the HOF as a rule, but I think the guy has to be someone who's pretty clearly the dominant hitter in the game for a long stretch.

I think the reason it will always be tough for a pure DH to make the HOF is that usually guys don't play there until they're well along in their careers.

Answer 5

To the Mick7.

By your logic does that mean no American League Pitcher should ever be put in the Hall of Fame. They only play every five days and they don't hit. So I guess they are not HOF eligible.

Like it or not the DH is a position in baseball. Some players are good at, some not so good. Edgar Martinez defined the DH position in the 90's, there is no arguing who the best DH has been as the award is named after him.

To create a position and then try to completely ignore it is just stupid. There are plenty of SS and 2B who got into the hall on the strength of their Defense who were marginal hitters as well as every day players who were defensive liabilities it is hypocritical to ignore the DH.

Also to say he was not the "elite" guy on his team will hurt him??? Ken Griffey Jr (1st ballot HOF) was in his absolute prime and named the player of the decade. NO ONE would have been the elite guy when paired with him.

Answer 6

The problem is that DH's only play some of the game, unlike position players which play a role every inning. Also, there are so many baseball purists out there that still do not accept the DH as a true part of the game, and that hurts the chances of people like Edgar Martinez too.

Answer 7

I agree with you that he belongs, and here are the two logical arguments why:

1.) Baseball created the DH position. It doesn't matter if you or anyone else likes it, they created it. So, if this is a position that baseball created, the best players at that position must be recognized. And Edgar is the best DH ever, at least so far.

2.) If we're not going to allow DHs into the Hall of Fame because they don't field, then we can't allow AL pitchers into the Hall, either, because they never hit.

I'm a Mariners fan who hates the DH rule, but it's part of the game and the best at the position must be recognized. It's that simple, and that logical.

Answer 8

Who would you leave off your tram of the 80s 90s to have a DH on it when you could have hitters who can also field?

Best DH does not equal HOF to me. Martinez will either have to make it on his playing or not. We're not going to vote somebody in because he was the best mop-up man or best utility player ever, even though those are important players. (Just as we're not voting too many long-snapper specialists into Canton.) And All-Star appearances at DH don't impress me, as the field of DH players tend to actually hit a bit worse than positions such as 1B, RF, and of course is often made up of fat old guys--not the case with Martinez, but that's his competition.

so--he is below average in Black Ink and Grey Ink scores measuring leading the league in important hitting categories.
His similarity scores are closest to non-HOF members Will Clark, John Olerud, Moises Alou. He receives virtually no bonus for defense or base-running. There are 16 eligible or active players ahead of him in OPS not in the Hall.

I wouldn't call it a travesty if he got in, but it would be a borderline election at best unless he becomes a great manager.
The same arguments can pretty much be used for Ortiz, too. I expect him to go rapidly downhill within three years if he doesn't start doing something about his weight.

Answer 9

I think you're right. Edgar was a great model of consistency during his career. Baseball is a game of many positions, and DH is certainly on of the. Does it hurt that he never fielded well? Maybe. But his hitting more than makes up for it.

Right now, I was say if David Ortiz keeps up his number every year, he might have a shot.

Answer 10

THe fielding will hurt him with the voters, many have said that you have to field a position to be a true Hall of Famer...the Hall of Fame is not a offense only honor. That is one reason why they keep Jim Rice out, because he did not field his position to a hall of fame caliber.

That being said Edgar could be the one that gets in but it will definitely not beon the first ballot. His numbers are impressive but the not playing the field hurts, the fact that he was not regarded as the elite guy on his team most of his time in the big leagues hurts and the fact that he went through most of his career anonimous to most of the Country outside of the AL West teams fans and writers.