madeleine dead. Forensic tests show she died from overdose of sleeping pills?

Question

please see question under my name. Breaking News -14/9/07reported in australian newspaper - of toxiology test results from body fluids in back of McCanns hire car

oh dear summer. A tad sarcastic. If you read the question I raised you will see that I wasn't claiming anything, but asking people if they might know where this had come from. Relaying a newspaper report is very different to rumour-mongering. It looks like you've seen my profile, in which case you will know that I am a scientist. Toxiocological tests done on hair are definitive. Drugs stay in the hair and can be traced as recently as the day they are administered.
All you have done with your response is prove the point yet again that soometimes people read one thing and interpret it as something entirely different.
I have kept an open mind about the McCanns. Go back to the original question please. The paper makes the statement. Not me

oh dear summer. A tad sarcastic. If you read the question I raised you will see that I wasn't claiming anything, but asking people if they might know where this had come from. Relaying a newspaper report is very different to rumour-mongering. It looks like you've seen my profile, in which case you will know that I am a scientist. Toxiocological tests done on hair are definitive. Drugs stay in the hair and can be traced as recently as the day they are administered.
All you have done with your response is prove the point yet again that soometimes people read one thing and interpret it as something entirely different.
I have kept an open mind about the McCanns. Go back to the original question please. The paper makes the statement. Not me

florida gal
I wholeheartedly agree. Imagine all of this being speculation, journalists 2nd and 3rd guessing, and hoping, on a wing and a prayer, that they got it right.
What if they were wrong and the McCanns are innocent of killing their child? How would they ever recover from all of this? They wouldn't.

I hope, for everyone's sake, that that dear little girl is found soon - alive or dead. (and of course I hope it's the former, although statistically that is increasingly unlikely the more time passes.
Otherwise this case will drag on and on. And Madeleine deserves much, much more than that.

hyroglyphics lady.
yep, hair is easy to transfer hair from person to person/object to person/object to object.
What we don't know and can't say is whether the hair is intact and clumped (meaning root system intact etc) or broken (no root) or mainly individual hairs.
With cadavers, hair is no longer being fed by a blood supply. The hair is shed, in clumps, from the scalp, with the roots intact.
While DNA can obviously be extracted from hair, hair in itself provides fascinating evidence.
It can be used, for example, to check the prenatal status of women who are trying to conceive. It stores heavy metals and other pollutants, including drugs, in the core of its fibre.

to desktopangie babe
to answer the question objectively - ie unconnected to the McCann case - sadly, accidental overdosing by doctors, does happen, not that infrequently. Cases of professional misconduct ( the term used whether or not a case is thought to be accidental) brought before the General Medical Council are all too frequent. Doctors are human and sometimes the cases arerelated to junior doctors working too many hours at night on busy wards/or on call when they are exhausted. The laws on doctors working hours were recently changed to help address this.
when amedicine is prescribed within guidelines it is usually fine and has safe parameters
When drugs are used that aren't recommended for that patient group - say, medication meant for adults being used for children, the side effects can be much less predictable-dose difficult to gauge because the guidelines on what the dose should be don't exist. most medicines prescribed in this country follow NICE guidelines.

outremerknight

the statement that you always need a body for toxiocology is not true. I can refer your friend to relevant scientific sources to show that.
if you have other material e.g. hair, you need to 1st establish that it is from the victim-ie genetically- then tests can be conducted for all manner of things.
If your friend worked for the RUC Forensic lab and says this, it strongly suggests they are not a trained scientist in the field
The Forensic Labs at Birmingham UK are conducting the forensic & toxiocology tests for this case & are world-leading in their science.
I should come clean.
I do not know the facts of the McCann case.What I can comment on with authority is some of the science.
My husband is a professor in his field of health-related science. I have several friends who are toxicologists - people I met when they were doing post graduate degrees in toxicology at Surrey University. One of these is a Professor of Toxicology. I look to his expertise here.

dear pixiebell
I'll let you into a secret. Amanda Burton is not a real pathologist......
Nor is Leo or Harry (handsome man...!) or Nicki (all Silent Witness)

Yeh, it is like some dogdy detective story.
As you say yourself in your answers to other Q's, you
1) wouldn't send message of support to McCanns, because you're suspicious of them
2) think that Madeleine has been dumped in the sea.

I still have an open mind about the McCanns, despite this being an unpopular viewpoint.
I am a doctor - 'tho not medical - with a PhD in Clinical Decision Making (acute care); Bachelor of Science- Biochemistry, Bachelor of Arts- Psychology (now a clinical psychologist); Master of Science in Advanced Research Methods (applied to health care), as well as having post-graduate qualifications in law and environmental health.
So I'm not a detective/pathologist, but I do have a law/extensive scientific health-related background.

A better bet, I'd say than AB or Grace from Waking the Dead!

sorry sam j

'qualifications' - your inverted commas - are completely true.
Give me your email address & I'll mail you some of my publications, plus my registrations to practice.
Your response is interesting, and symptomatic of you having a problem with passive-aggressiveness and insecurity, and maybe non-achievement. Neuro-linguistic programming might help.

Answer 1

I'd wait until Fox News or CNN broadcast this report. There are so many other news sources that will print or say anything to make headlines. Accuracy is not something they are concerned about. I seriously doubt the police would release such information to the media before making an arrest.

But to be honest, the possibility of meds has crossed everyone's mind.

Answer 2

Forensic science might be good, but its not THAT good. Need a body to post-mortem for toxiology. Has a body been found, I haven't heard there has been. I know of no case where post-body fluids have proven toxiology.

Answer 3

This wouldn't suprise me in the least as I'm sure I read that Kate already admitted to giving her children something to make them sleep.(guilty *****) This sounds more like we're getting somewhere and the truth is almost out.I just hope Maddies body is found soon so she can be laid to rest, God bless her.

Answer 4

I watched the Trevour McDonald Program about Maddie in 2004 another little girl went missing.That was 7 miles from where Maddie went missing.The police charged her with murder the little girl has never been found & the copper is the same one who is in charge of Maddie's case.The mother told her ex husband the police beat her untill she confessed to murder.they showed a photo her face is covered in bruises

Answer 5

This is turning into a flippin detective programme. We need to get Amanda Burton on this.

Answer 6

i've just read the same from the Metro.

& this in The Times.
It is an offence under section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 to neglect or abandon a child under the age of 16 for whom a parent or carer has responsibility.

about time they were hauled before the courts, isn't it?

Answer 7

The plot thickens.
It gets more like a Poirot story every day. I think I will reserve judgemenrt until ALL the facts are in.

Answer 8

This is nonsense simply not true like your "qualifications"

Answer 9

IF she was given an overdose then how could a doctor give an overdose? Surely they would be competant enough to give enough to sedate but not kill?

Answer 10

Read the article, not looking good I'm afraid, I guess we will see if there is truth in it today.

Although I believe they are definitly guilty of neglect, and believe they are involved, I think deep down I hoped they weren't guilty of this terrible crime.