Very interesting philosophy question.?

Question

Doing a paper for philosophy and I am wondering what other people think about this.

A ship is built and begins a voyage around the world. In the course of the long voyage, parts of the ship inevitably break. The voyage continues and one by one the broken parts are replaced using new parts that are identical to the original parts. By the time the ship returns to its home port, all of its parts have been replaced in this way (literally, every single part, from the framing to the hull to the deck and right down to the last nut and bolt and speck of paint...everything). At the end of the voyage, is it the same ship or is it a different ship? Or is it something other than the same or different? Explain.

Answer 1

None of the answers you've gotten thus far are philosophical. That is to say, none have posited multiple answers referenced back to great thinkers as to WHY the ship would or wouldn't be the same from a philosophical standpoint.

Stakeholders and loyal users of the vessel would claim it is the same...even better for the upgrades. The extreme example of this would be Machiavellian, especially if it was the King's armada returning from battle.

On the other hand, I can think of NO philosophical position which would hold unequivocally that it is a new vessel. The alternatives are that it may or may not be, it just depends, and it's late...and I have to go to bed now...

Answer 2

It's the old identity paradox!

It's sort of a silly question to answer. It does little more than make you think about something. At some point is not really the same ship anymore. At which point that is, is pretty much arbitrary. In actual application, it's up to some public official or administrator to define "same" or "not the same."

On a strong view of identity, it is not the same the moment a change is made. On a really weak view, it's the same one no matter what you do, almost.

Generally, we would consider that some essential part(s) of the ship defines the identity of the ship, the hull for instance, and the ship is considered to be the same one as long as that or those original parts are intact.

Answer 3

Is the ship merely the sum of its parts? If so, then everytime a part was replaced a different ship was continuing the voyage and the ship that made it back is not the same ship. Otherwise, If the ship is more than the sum of its parts then the same 'idea ship' continued the voyage til the end.

But what about the crew? They are not technically part of the ship and I take it that they weren't replaced during the journey. Then, I would say that the original ship continued its journey through them, albeit with a new bow and stern.

Aren't we all like your ship? Our bodies, cells, psyches and thoughts continually change but the information coded in our genes, our quest for the meaning of life remain essentially the same.

Answer 4

This example is merely a metaphor for the human body and identity. Approximately every seven years or so, we as humans have went through the process of replacing every cell in our body with a new one. We still consider ourselves as being the same person (though experience during the time may be said to "change" us). The problem seems to be that the materiality or substance of a "thing" (ship or human body) is priviledged over the pattern or organization of the sum of parts (people are more than simple the sum of their parts). As such, the ship has continuity throughout its pattern of Being regardless of whether is has consistency of its parts. So, we typically say it is the same (though deep down we also technically consider it "new").

Answer 5

What a great question. I read or heard somewhere, in the west, we'd say no. In the east, they'd say yes, its the same ship. I guess a team of archeologists uncovered some ancient art (sorry I can't remember where) and when they were finished, the locals were confused as to why they wouldn't finish the paintings, so when they left, they finished them.

nan- re: the house thing, I thought when you bought a house it was a capitol investment and can hold equity, of which you are allowed to deprieciate on your taxes, so when you improve the place, it evens out, plus with inflation and the runaway growth of real estate... i agree it's crap though. it just hurts the people who simply want to buy a house to live in.
(oh, i'm not 100% on that either, i rent... so far.)

Answer 6

It's ironic someone interested in nihilism even gives a crap about philosophy. My suggestion to you would be to keep it simple. The quickest way to do that is to admit to yourself you don't know and you will never know and that's a philosophy in and of itself. Then you can get on with trying to be happy in your life, without biases or preconceptions (because you don't know anything to have preconceptions about). This will allow you to appreciate life more, live in the moment. Philosophy isn't really that useful (past a certain point). If you find yourself a curious person in nature always wondering why, but want useful possibilities to your answers then try psychology. Just my two cents.

Answer 7

It's like the story of the school janitor who said he had been using the same broom for forty years. In all that time he had only bought three new handles and ten new heads. To him it was the same broom because he had not replaced the whole item at any one time so the new parts became a part of the existing broom. It could only be a new broom if all parts were replaced at the same time. The same applies to your ship. as the parts were replaced piecemeal, the ship itself did not cease to be.

Answer 8

Is the same ship.
I believe is like a living organism changing the cells all the time.
That remain me about the story about the Armada Invencible Española. The quantities of ships are so big that when they finish a boat another needs reparation and be completely ready to fight the English sailors was almost impossible. Very interesting story.

Answer 9

what was and what is the ships name.

The ship exists because it is nouned and nouned to that group. If the noun is the same it is the same ship regardless of repairs. This works while the ship remains a ship. If it transforms from a ship to a plane then, no, the object is in a differing noun group and can be seen as something different through a transformation

Answer 10

nanlwart hit it on the head, this is a common conundrum in philo where the body is used as all our cells replace themselves.

I say human language sometimes like to categorize things that might otherwise not be considered so. Why are Neptune and Mars both called the same category? perhaps aliens would call them 2 totally different things? When humans say "same" what do they mean? They mean something that they don't really think about very much, it just looks the same. When forced to examine on this level, we need new terms perhaps.