Sonnet: When We're Together (revision) Comments welcome. Please let me know what you think?

Question

There are times you just have to laugh. I'm proofreading like mad, and I left an extra four lines in the first version. Thank you Scotty for pointing it out, and for the other helpful comments. If I'm going to call it a sonnet it should have 14 lines.

This is my second sonnet so any suggestions or comments are welcome. Thank you.

When We’re Together

We live with these complex redundancies,
What we touch we hurry to touch again.
We overlook these inconsistencies,
What we feel we struggle to still contain.
For in these moments something new remains,
The sky still shatters, stars fall raining down,
Rivulets mark the night with sweet refrains,
We melt into each other start to drown.
Yet do I truly end and you begin?
Each nudge ignites the tinder, smoke does wreathe.
It seems as though we’re trapped within this skin
For if I pull away will I still breathe.
To separate brings such a heavy toll
When we are torn apart so less than whole.

Honest comments don't offend me Marilyn. I'm asking what people think, and that's what I want to get. I don't go into form very often, I'm more comfortable with free verse so I am happy for all feedback. Thank you.

Jeff: Good to see you back we've missed your wit and sanity here. Thank you for the fine critique. I will go over it on rewrite. I appreciate the time you took on it.

Best,

Todd

Scotty: Thanks again. I don't mind any help with meter. I'm working with a book that annabella suggested "A Linguistic Guide to English Poetry" and while I don't plan to write much in traditional form I want to be able to hear the stresses properly (and I find that difficult). So, thank you for the feedback.

Answer 1

Hello, Todd. You're a braver man than I, posting your poem to be critiqued by committee (online no less); but judging by most of the feedback you've been getting, you seem to be in the good company of well-informed peers.

Okay, here's my two-cents worth. Considering the challenges of writing in a traditional form, you have achieved a pleasing, natural sounding diction in contemporary vernacular. There are so many poems posted on Y!A that use rhyme like a hammer and chisel on parchment, it rings obnoxiously loud and makes a bloody mess of the page. Your achievement is all the more impressive considering that most of your lines are end-stop rhymes.

Having said that, don't forget that you have the option of using enjambment to further "naturalize" your diction. Furthermore, through a clever application of end-stops and enjambments, you could provide even greater structural and thematic resonance, PARTICULARLY in a poem like yours which addresses issues of unity and separation.

In tone, you successfully sustain a level of tenderness and sorrow that refrains from becoming maudlin, and I think some of that can be credited to your natural diction and--for the most part--well chosen rhymes. I like certain choices of imagery since you are talking about boundaries (or lack thereof) between the speaker and his/her significant other, e.g., "sky still shatters," "rivulets," and "smoke." On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of "melt into each other" and "trapped within this skin," because they do risk approaching cliche.

There is one significant problem I have with this sonnet on a conceptual level relating to the concluding heroic couplet, which I'm afraid may unravel your entire sonnet as it stands. Given the quiet, tender, yet sophisticated contemplation afforded the reader from all the lines before, I was disappointed with the last two lines. I'm not sure the conclusion provides anything particularly new or compelling to the issue of relationships. The notion that "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts" may be true, but there has to be a fresher way of telling it.

Personally, I think you could completely excise those lines. In fact, I think the FAR more compelling argument to be made in your poem rests in the following AMAZING lines (which I've edited strictly for my interest in the content, paying no particular heed to the metrics or form at this point):

Line 1: We live with these...redundancies--
Line 2: What we touch we hurry to touch again--
Line 5: For in these moments something new remains.

BAM! I feel like these lines are the crux of your poem. They make me wish I had written them! THAT is the "inconsistency" you have so wonderfully elaborated without having to say it out loud: we as social human beings are given to falling into routines and habits and ways of thinking but still always manage to find something new in our relationships.

If this becomes your core argument, you could do SO much with the imagery already established around the idea. The imagery of rivulets, smoke, shattering, etc. all convey the concept of patterns, changing patterns, and the breaking of patterns. Even breaking a pattern becomes a pattern in itself (as the sky shattering suggests), one full of old familiarity and startling newness at the same time. This is why I really think the last line has to go, because it doesn't build on the conceptual sophistication that your poem wants to develop.

I could go into a line by line reading of how your metrics is holding up (sorry Scotty, but I'm not sure I completely agree with your scansion), but I think the REAL poem needs to evolve first from the three lines I mentioned. This could mean a substantial revision that may not even end up being a sonnet! Obviously, this is only own opinion and you should take whatever advice you will as the originating artist.

For further inspiration, I'd like to suggest a poem (not a sonnet but it's in spondaic tetrameter and uses a farily elaborate stanzaic rhyme scheme) that relates in some ways to the theme of your poem. If you haven't already read it, it's W.H. Auden's "Lay your sleeping head, my love...."

http://poetry.poetryx.com/poems/45/

Also, if you're interested in any more books relating to form, I'd recommend the following two:

http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Poetry-Encyclopedia-Miller-Williams/dp/0807113301/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-8966171-1320414?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189633619&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Poetic-Meter-Form-Paul-Fussell/dp/0075536064/ref=sr_1_1/105-8966171-1320414?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189633694&sr=1-1

Both books are about the size of a novella, so they're quite portable. Miller's book is a listing of the various poetic forms and patterns citing specific poems as examples. Fussell's book is more of an academic discourse on formal poetry in general.

Anyway, I hope some of this was helpful. I don't soft-peddle my critiques, at least for those I think have the wherewithal to handle it. I'll see you around on the Y!A pages.

Answer 2

Todd, I like much of what I see here. From a logical standpoint I fought the phrase "something new remains," but on thinking about it, I think it is a strong statement. Originality in language helps make a usually hackneyed subject area feel fresh here, so I applaud that.

There are a few punctuation issues. The first and third lines should end in semicolons, and the 12th should end in a question mark. Some in-line punctuation would help as well, such as a comma in line eight after "other."

Also, two lines jump out as having clunker words that seem forced in to make the 10-line syllable count. In line 4, "still" is awkward; you may do better from a flow standpoint to begin the line with "as" and omit "still" (in which case the semicolon ending line three would need to revert to being a comma). Also, "smoke does wreathe" in line 10 is a little clumsy. Here there is a syllable count and a rhyme issue to take into account, of course, but something along the lines of "Nudges ignite the tinder, the smoke wreathe" might preserve both rhyme and syllables without the "does" throwing off the rhythm. Play with it, as you may develop something better than my replacement line.

The danger with any formal poetry is getting too tied up with the form to focus on the poetry, the language and nuance that make a poem come alive. You have done well with this for the most part; a little tweaking such as what I described would make it even better. Nice work!

Answer 3

You're gonna hate me.

In sonnet-izing, I'm pretty an*l about the iambic pentameter. It's really important (at least to me) to ensure that if you're using iambic pentameter, you're making sure the emphasis is on the second syllable in each of the five "groups of two syllables" that make up a line. You should be able to feel the
"Da-DAH, da-DAH, da-DAH, da-DAH, da-DAH".

We LIVE with THESE comPLEX reDUN danCIES.
(Good job here!)

What WE touch WE hurRY to TOUCH aGAIN.
(that's how the line would read, but that's not really how we'd pronounce this. Maybe this instead:

"That which we touch, we're quick to touch again."
(That WHICH we TOUCH, we're QUICK to TOUCH aGAIN.
See how that falls within the meter more?)

The third line ("we overlook these inconsistencies") is metrically perfect. Good job!

The fourth line could use some help.

Now...that's not to say that it's not allowable to depart from that occasionally. Even the bard, the greatest sonnet writer of all times, occasionally departed from that in order to drive home a particular point here and there. And it should be allowable for you too. For example, "Rivulets mark the night with sweet refrains." Doesn't follow the rhythm PERFECTLY but it allows you to get the right meter and allows you to use a three syllable word with the emphasis on the first syllable (rivulets), and therefore places an extra emphasis on the word rivulets and that line.

I like it. A lot. Good job. A side comment: I like the illustration of the tinder and smoke, and your use of the word "wreathe." I wonder, if the relationship sours, would the smoke then "writhe" instead? :)

Answer 4

Todd, i like a lot of what I see here. From a logical point of view I fought the word "some thing new maintains to be," yet on thinking approximately it, i think of it extremely is a sturdy assertion. Originality in language facilitates make a in many situations hackneyed undertaking area sense clean here, so I applaud that. There are some punctuation matters. the 1st and 0.33 lines could bring about semicolons, and the twelfth could bring about a query mark. some in-line punctuation could help as properly, alongside with a comma in line 8 after "different." additionally, 2 lines bounce out as having clunker words that look compelled in to make the ten-line syllable count extensive type. In line 4, "nonetheless" is awkward; you're able to do greater powerful from a circulate point of view to start the line with "as" and bypass over "nonetheless" (wherein case the semicolon ending line 3 could desire to revert to being a comma). additionally, "smoke does wreathe" in line 10 is a sprint clumsy. here there's a syllable count extensive type and a rhyme undertaking to contemplate, for sure, yet some thing alongside the lines of "Nudges ignite the tinder, the smoke wreathe" could shield the two rhyme and syllables devoid of the "does" throwing off the rhythm. Play with it, as you could improve some thing greater powerful than my alternative line. the threat with any formal poetry is getting too tied up with the form to concentration on the poetry, the language and nuance that make a poem come alive. you have performed properly with this for the main area; a sprint tweaking alongside with what I defined could make it much greater powerful. advantageous paintings!

Answer 5

Wow, so loving and heart felt Todd, just simply beautiful *^_^*

I so wish my husband could write, to recive a gift such as this beats a (once a year) Hallmark anyday *^_^*

All the Very Best, Shad @)~>~

Answer 6

As a woman, I find it very abstract and a bit hard
to focus on what the man in you is feeling. I could say more but I wonder if I should.
Sincerely.

Answer 7

Is good, but quite doesn't make a lot of sense. Need to see a little bit of love feeling in it. Needs a little work, Todd. Sorry if I offended you, but honesty is my forté.

Answer 8

Todd, I like it very much. To me, it reads very smoothly, and I don't really mind if the rhythm is not consistently iambic, on the contrary: a little variation is most welcome.
And I don't believe it: you are actually working with the book I mentioned. If only my students were like you...

Answer 9

I can't find my rivulet gun...

This is full of sentiment. To me, for beats sake, it needs more commas, like after "touch" and "feel."

Very nice.

And Shad, I do offer a creative energy correspondence course for husbands who lack poetic skills...

Answer 10

Todd,

Lovely. I honestly don't know that much about sonnets to give you a critique on form, but I enjoyed this. Thanks for sharing!