to the McCann fans?

Question

toi et moi yesterday asked if people were ashamed of the hassle the McCanns were getting....."these poor folk" as he said.

My question is ........You McCann fans all think that we have no reason to believe that they are guilty, so what I want to know is this......How do you all know that they are NOT guilty.

have you ever met them?
Do you know anything that we don't?
Is it because they are a "normal" upper class family?
Is it because they are doctors and well....no doctor could ever
do that to their family?
Don't you believe it when there are other proven cases of
upper class "decent" families having killed their kids?
What do you resent us giving our opinions on the subject as a
lot of the answers to us are downright personally insulting
Why do we get violations for asking a simple question....this is
a country which practices free speech
And once again WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE INNOCENT?......have you proof that they are innocent

Plato......yes i am a very happy person....especially in the fact that i never neglected my kids, and im only middle class

Dan.....it's because they think they are superior to us. They're probably all doctors.

Michello O.......um...now let me get this right......i thought you didn't read my question........!?

T.......you are so right....not one so far has answered what i asked....not a single one!!!

BBC news 24........thanks for that. i am still waiting for an answer to what i asked.....they ask how we know...but cant say why they know.....because they can't.

Buttercup.....thank you for your answer. i respect your views, but there are some people on here who have said, and i quote "no way did they kill their kids" or "they are totally innocent"
all im asking is ...how on earth do they know.

Bluebell
are you for real?......yes they dug up the very ground looking for her, they searched in bushes, they trekked into the wilderness.....yea....dream on. they spent all their time raising money that no one seems to know went to pay for what?.....oh yes and they travelled a lot!!!

Steph J
Right back atch......gosh thats such a grown up answer......still i didnt expect an answer for what i asked...i got one, but it was not proof that they didnt do it.
and you are the second person to ask me how i know they did do it........without answering MY question first.......bad show!!!!...its because none of you know...thats why

Christine M
thank you for that answer. i wish everyone had your view and allowed other people of express their opinions without being reported for no reason. I have a feeling this one is going to be reported too....just feeling! I've given you a thumbs up as i agree with what you say.

nusha
i have to correct you in you version of middle class. professional people, skilled workers, beaurocrats, merchants and some farmers fall under middle class.
working class refers to people who do physical labour and work to an hourly wage....factory workers, labourers, shop workers, masons etc
upper class does not mean you do not work...it is usually people who have high powered jobs......cardiac surgeon for example....or even people who are born into that class

Crackerjack.....very well said. thank you

Tab.....thats still not good enough to say why they didnt do it. and as for maddy being in her room at the checks then the person who checked them apart from the parents said he didnt go into the room just listened at the door.

if they didnt think that then tell me why we get violations and insults albeit not from everyone for our views.
guilty.....then how come some of you lot say....no way they are guilty, or...a mother can never kill her child...yea right!
i asked if anyone had met them as yu all seem to know so well that they are innocent, how can you think that of people you dont know. how many criminals are there that close relatives dont know what they are like
class......somehow and i think you deep down agree with me.....there would not be all this support for them if they came from run down council estate....maybe not you personally but the majority.
i have never posted vile abusive crap and dont agree with anyone who has, but i have certainly been given it by mccann supporters
you think they are innocent because they have not been found guilty... that is a load of crock and absolutely no reason to base your theory on.
thank you for your answer though which i respect

Faith
thank you for your answer, and i respect your views, i have never been rude to anyone.
but just let me say that the British police have discovered that they were all drinking in the afternoon as well as the evening. i would say that that seemed more important than their kids as there were many witnesses to say that the kids were left in creches during the day as well as night. so obviously having a boozing session was more important to them all...and i mean all the doctors not just kate and gerry.
and no one knows how mentally stable they are. i know a women with Bi Polar depression. No one can tell she looks and acts so normal, but i have seen her on her bad days and she can be an absolute *****.
maybe you think there is no significant evidence against them, but even you must admit things are looking more and more suspicious
thanks for your answer anyway

DITTO
you are just what i have been speaking about.
have you ever thought you are getting reported, not because of who you are, but because of your foul language.
If you think you are adult enough to have an opinion on the McCanns then act like an adult and have the intelligence to talk normally without swearing.

nusha

if you look up wikipedia you will find the meaning of class systems and what they stand for. i think a world dictionary would know more.

Answer 1

It's funny how they are seen as poor folk when - whether they killed Maddy or not - they categorically neglected their kids to the point that they left them locked in an apartment abroad while they went out socialising. Are they guilty? I don't know for sure but there are certainly a large number of areas that are very sinister about the stories of Kate and Gerry McCann and although some of the following points can be answered individually, it takes a giant leap of faith to simply explain away ALL of the ‘evidence’. I think they have a very strong case to answer based on the following:

(1) Firstly, what type of people are the McCanns? In my opinion (having a 4 year old daughter myself), anyone who would leave their kids locked in an apartment while they went out eating and drinking with friends in a foreign country – no matter how close they claim they were to the apartment – clearly has different priorities in life to me, I don’t even leave my kid in the car when I go and pay for petrol. They are your typical upper middle class family, both seemingly well heeled and their career and image with friends etc. is very important to them. I believe this mentality underpins not only the reason why they would sedate their children so they could go and socialise. If my daughter woke up even at home and cried for us with no response, even for five minutes, she would be hysterical. For me to be half a mile away drinking with friends is unthinkable – how could they accept that situation? This also underpins what their response would be if they found their child dead through their negligence, I believe that they would think “this will ruin us, what about our career?” Evidence from Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the McCanns, and another witness have allegedly described the way Kate McCann dealt with her children which includes bouts of hysterical shouting and screaming at them. Allegedly, it is claimed she regularly put the kids to bed in the daytime for minor reasons and then left them. They even plan to use the £1M Madeleine fund donated by people like you and me to fight their legal case. Hang on - do–they not want to keep using this to find their daughter or is their legal situation more important to them?
(2) How much alcohol did they drink that night? They told police they shared 4 bottles of wine with another 2 barely touched. However, police recovered a bill showing they had drunk 8 botles of red wine and 6 bottles of white wine that evening.
(3) Who last saw Madeleine alive? Although they said others checked on her, their friend who went to the apartment never went into her room. Basically, no-one apart from Kate and Gerry saw her between 6pm and 10pm when they reported her missing. The witness statements of the ‘timings’ of events during the evening are alleged to differ wildly between Kate and Gerry and their friends and other witnesses.
(4) Why did Kate shout, "They've taken her?" when she discovered Madeleine missing? Even the police find it suspicious that Kate immediately believed that more than one person had taken her daughter which could indicate that she knew who took Maddie - perhaps people who thought they were helping her by removing her daughter's body?
(5) Why was Madeleine's bedroom window and shutter open? Kate and Gerry told police the window in Madeleine's bedroom (which could not been seen from the restaurant which in itself is actually quite far away when you look at the map) had been forced open. Tests showed the heavy metal shutter had not been forced up from the outside and was pulled open from inside the room. Assuming the mystery abductor(s) entered by the unlocked patio windows why would they not leave by the same way or the use the front door? Or was the window opened to make it appear as if an intruder had used it to enter the bedroom?
(6) Why did Madeleine's sister and brother sleep through her abduction? Sean and Amelie not only slept through their mother's hysterical response to Madeleine's disappearance but also to the presence of dozens of people who joined the search and who were in their room. Even with the police there, they were carried out still asleep. Does this not support the sedating argument?
(7) Why did Kate wash Madeleine’s soft pink toy? The cadaver dog used by police become excited when shown Madeleine's favourite soft pink toy. The cat had become a symbol of a mother's loss as Kate carried it with her at all time right from the night of Madeleine's disappearance. However, she washed it four days after the police tests claiming it had become dirty. The toy was potentially crucial evidence and should have been seized by police early in the investigation. If my daughter disappeared, I would never wash anything of hers – I wouldn’t want to lose the smell of my daugther from anything and I simply cannot understand anyone who would wash their missing child’s favourite toy. To me, this another sign of a very cynical person.
(8) What is the DNA and ‘hard’ evidence? Firstly, a "substantial amount" of Madeleine's hair was said to have been found in the boot of the McCanns' Renault Scenic hire car which was hired 25 days after the McCanns experience. A side point perhaps but since they were very close to the investigation at that time (until the police started to freeze them out when they started viewing them as strong suspects), they would have been aware of where the police were looking and had looked for Madeleine. Hypothetically speaking; if they felt the police were close to finding her, they would have needed to have moved the body. Anyway, the forensic evidence allegedly points to Madeleine's body being hidden in the car's spare wheel well. The amount of hair was said to be sufficient to convince police that it could only have got there directly from Madeleine's body, rather than by "secondary transfer" from her clothes or the Cuddle Cat toy. Bodily fluids said to have been found in the car showed signs of decomposition, it is alleged, leading police to believe that Madeleine was dead at the time of insertion into the car. Police specifically briefed the Portuguese media that "bodily fluids" - not blood - with an 88 per cent chance of being Madeleine's, were found in a space under the boot liner where the spare wheel is normally kept. Bodily fluids from a corpse will show signs of decomposition when analysed. This may explain why Portuguese police appear so confident that Madeleine is dead. There were also reports that toxicology tests on the samples in the car may have led to the suspicion that Madeleine was drugged and thus increases speculation that she may have been accidentally given an overdose of a sedative. Of the blood samples found in the car, one was in the cockpit and one in the boot, of which one was an exact match and another was a partial match. Blood begins to congeal after death and so blood samples can provide strong indications as to whether a person was alive or dead at the time they were deposited. Another crucial factor is the quantity of blood or bodily fluids - a tiny speck of blood or a fleck of dried blood could have been transferred via Madeleine's possessions but a pool of blood could not. Madeleine's DNA had been found on the floor of the McCanns' apartment, but due to degredation it was based on an incomplete picture, with only 15 of the 20 genetic markers usually used for such analysis.
(9) What did the ‘cadaver’ dogs / sniffer dogs discover? Dogs trained to detect decomposing bodies are reported to have reacted to the "smell of death" in the McCanns' apartment, in their hire car and on Kate McCann's clothes. Kate and Gerry were shown a police video of a sniffer dog used to find corpses "going crazy" when it approached the hire car. Reports also claim that it discovered the scent on the vehicle's key fob. Kate explained that in her work as a GP she came into contact with six corpses before the Algarve holiday. Although the crucial difficulty with the sniffer dog "evidence" is that it cannot distinguish between corpses and that this type of dog is trained to find bodies, not identify where they have been, are we seriously expected to believe Kate’s explanation that she had touched bodies before the holiday – would she not have washed many times since then, been wearing different clothes etc? Would she have transferred that smell to a key fob of a hire car about 5/6 weeks after touching a body at work in the UK?
(10) Is there any other hard evidence? Phone taps have apparently helped satisfy police that the couple believed their daughter was dead – something they have said on the phone either to each other or to friends / family has led police to believe that they know something they shouldn’t. Gerry McCann has told friends: "The police are listening to every word we say."
(11) Why the shock and indignation at being named suspects? At the end of the day, their child went missing in mysterious circumstances. They were the last people to see her alive, there is little evidence pointing to anyone else yet a lot of questions for them to answer and they have mounted a very large media campaign (isn’t it funny how often – over the last decade - the person sat at the press conference turns out to be the culprit?). It is therefore completely reasonable they are made suspects and if I was in their position, I would understand the situation fully - as horrible as it may be. They doth protesteth too much!

Answer 2

No one knows if they are innocent or guilty. But recent events have certainly cast a shadow over them. What makes me laugh is that most of the people who say they are innocent, are just as quick to condemn OJ (proven innocent, Ithink guilty but that's not the point) and Barrymore (because he's a devient queer, but no evidence) and this innocent until proven guilty (that's why guys like Capone, Gotti, Dalmer, Ted Bundy, Albert Fish etc...) can carry on with murderous intent for so long. Now they are claiming to be "Framed", watch a little to much LA Law. It makes me laugh that people think the Portugeuse police are so inept, and would just "pin" this crime on anyone to get it over with. If that was the case, why wouldn't they pin it on Murat, the lonely middle aged, divorce, man living with his mother (If that's not a pedophile profile, I don't know what is). People also seem to dismiss the fact, that the McCanns didn't come under suspision until the UK police and profilers became invovled in the case. So if anyone is guiding the PJ it's the UK police, they were after all there profiling them for 3 weeks, and all the forensic evidence was tested here in the UK. Again a state of innocence or guilt is personal opinion at this point, and what we all think is irrelevent. The prosecuter has the info now, and he will decide if there is enough to bring charges.

Answer 3

well said nusha !!!! why are you turing this into a class thing ?

In answer to your question - we dont know what happened to this poor little girl - and to hang them as judge and jury is not a fair and just trial - you dont know any more than any one else - whether your pro or against the mccanns is only an opinion and neither has any hard solid facts.

All we know is that they left their children alone - which no-one can condone - but which at a high price - hopefully many people will have learnt from - so your quite entitled to dislike them for this fact alone - but that doesnt make them murderers - and in a case like this you need to separate the two unless hard solid evidence prooves otherwise.

If you ended up in a situation with high media profile - wouldnt you have the tiniest hope that someone somewhere could remain objective enough to accurately weigh up the presented evidence?

But on a last note - i hope they still can 'bring maddie home'

Answer 4

I have no personal proof of their innocence or guilt.
I do believe in free speech and respect other peoples opinions even when they differ from my own. But unfortunately other people are not like minded, and as is shown when people dont like the answer from whichever viewpoint, abuse and profanity are the order on yahoo answers. But it is their perogative if that is the way they choose to conduct themselves on this forum, not that i like it .
I personally like to see other peoples thoughts and sides of the argument, because it gives another side to the argument i may not have considered and most peoples views are very well thought out and researched.
It is just a shame it has got so bad, others might not agree and like a really heated cursing show of thought. It all depends i think, on the age of the person writing and their character.

Answer 5

on the prospect of having yet yet another violation, I could agree. I have no activity in coming up convoluted conspiracy theories related to the McCanns, I incredibly have continually published my opinion that's: they don't have left their young little ones by myself, as medical doctors, (who, for the duration of guidance could have worked in A&E, and dealt with little ones who've had injuries interior the homestead), they could have commonplace extra perfect. there is, however, a contradiction right here: The excuse for not using the babysitting service is that "they did not have faith strangers to shield their newborn". straightforward adequate i assume, yet how can leaving your little ones without supervision be extra perfect than leaving them with somebody you don't be attentive to? I examine that the babysitters are the staff from the youngsters club that all and sundry 3 little ones were attending, so as that they does not have been strangers besides. i'm sorry, however the McCanns failed of their responsibilities as mothers and dads. Their precedence could have been the risk-free practices and welfare of their little ones. additionally, if the gang that grew to become into holidaying with them grew to become into so great, why did they not take it in turns to act as a communal babysitter each evening? i might have extremely had the hassle of shifting my young little ones into one house for the evening, so as that one grownup ought to supervise, then threat leaving them unattended.

Answer 6

Firstly, if one doesn't stoop to vilify every move of a grieving family & if one still believes in the old adage "Innocent until proved guilty", it doesn't make us "fans" of anyone.

We are just normal, well-adjusted folk for whom compassion & justice means waiting for proof before condemning anyone.

I do not have SaturnFive's patience & wisdom to tackle your rant point by point but i think this one sentence should suffice :
I believe the McCanns are innocent 'cos there is not an iota of significant evidence against them.

Am not naive, parents have killed their own before.
But in most of those tragic cases, they have been under some sort of substance abuse or mentally unstable at that time. The McCanns were on a family holiday. Just hours before Madeleine went missing they were all frolicking happily on the beach. There isn't any indication of abuse or emotional unstability in the family.
Just some of the reasons, why i believe Kate & Gerry are innocent of murdering their child.

Answer 7

Lets answer you rant point by point.
1. How can you possably know what all "McCann Fans" Think. You can't so that was a moronic generalisation.
2. No one at this stage can know if they are guilty or not.
3.No I have never meet them, What has that to do with anything.
4.Define "Normal" upper class family and no it does not influence me in the slightest.
5.The fact they are Doctors does not influence me either.]
6. I do not resent you or anyone else giving there opinions, what I object to is the ongoing hate campaign and people who post vile and abusive crap.
7. I do not request violations and Free Speech should not extend to unfounded accusations and sick speculation
8. I think they are innocent because they have not been proved guilty.
Lastly the burden of proof, as everyone knows, does not lay with establishing innocence, but rather with establishing guilt.
As in INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY........
I take it you can grasp that cornerstone of British justice.

Answer 8

Very good question Elsie; but I advise you not to hold your breath,while waiting for an answer..you could turn a rather nice shade of blue !!
These people who believe implicitly that the McCanns are innocent of any crime,do so in the rather misguided belief that
'professional' people don't do this sort of thing.Such naivety
is really quite frightening,especially in adults !

Answer 9

How could they have possibly done it? There was a huge search of the area by many stretching for miles, so if they had killed her and hidden the body, they must've have a pretty good hiding place. They had only been in the area for a few days, not long enough to find a place to hide their daughter's body in, so clever that she will never be found. They are not familiar with the place and they were only gone from the dinner table for several minutes each, so the body must've been hidden beforehand. But there are witnesses who say Madeleine was in the room while checks were being made. So how could they have done it?

Answer 10

Anybody on here who even tries to say anything in the interest of balance comes under fire as being 'on side' with the McCanns. I hate that this has turned into a personal battle between Yahoo users. That's when it seems like there's no balance or reasoned opinions. And, worse still, people seem to get more out of the point scoring against each other than remembering that this is a real life tragedy.

I don't know if they're guilty or not. Neither do you.

That's the point that a lot of people get criticised for. The whole point is that some of us are just saying we don't have evidence or any kind of absolute proof - either way.

Edit: I've answered your question. None of us can prove it either way.

Answer 11

Any one who thinks the McCanns are innocent victims in this are deluded,at best they are guilty of gross negligence in allowing her to be kidnapped (it is not as if kate and geryy fought with the kidnapper maddy was home alone)At worst they are murdering scum that deserve to rot in hell.As for the fund dont even start me The majority of that money will have came from the people in our society who can least afford it pensioners , single mothers with kids around that age ,and hard working families that are making ends meet on the minimum wage.SO HOW CAN THEY BE INNOCENT ?