Should the following players be members of the Hall Of Fame?

Question

Every so often I have to bring up this topic so that we don't forget the outstanding talent that these former ball players possessed. It's clear that the Veterans Committee has failed in a big way by excluding these players from any consideration. Not to mention the current baseball writers association who's members, for the most part, wouldn't know which end of a bat to hold, has not done their job as well. As you look at this list just remember that of the 545 baseball writers who have a vote for the HOF, more than half have not attended a major league baseball game in 10 years. Many have been retired for years and don't even follow the game anymore yet still have a vote! I'm not sure what the answer is to correct the situation but for the moment please give me your take with a yes or no to the following list and why you think they should or should not be in the HOF.

Jim Rice
Dwight Evans
Dave Parker
Rich "Goose" Gossage
Don Mattingly
Alan Trammell
Andre Dawson

Nice pick up Frizzer. Let's add both Tommy John and Bert Blyleven to the list.

Bucky - These numbers were supplied on a Comcast Cable round table discussion by 6 Philadelphia sports writers in 2004. Michael Barcam was the host and the comments were supplied by Phil Jasner.

Answer 1

Thanks for the question! These names always stir up some good debate. Here's what I think for better or worse. :-)

Jim Rice - Overrated. Playing in Fenway Park helped him tremendously. He was a double play machine, not a selective hitter, had an average on base average, and was a detriment as a baserunner. Put him in a neutral park for those 16 years and no one would be suggesting he was a Hall of Famer. I wouldn't vote him in.

Dwight Evans - If knowing how their careers would turn out and I could draft either man, I'd pick Evans over Rice in a heartbeat and never regret it. However, I think he falls short as a Hall of Famer, although I wouldn't be bothered by his election.

Dave Parker - Parker was a hair better than Evans - perhaps. He had more impact seasons than Evans, but once again, I wouldn't put him in the Hall.

Rich "Goose" Gossage - Should be there without question.

Don Mattingly - A tough case. How can you not like Don Mattingly? For a while there he was the best hitter in baseball, which is quite a claim to make and NOT be in the Hall. Injuries shortened his career substantially, but I would still vote him in. The ballplayer's ballplayer.

Alan Trammell - At a glance you look at his career batting stats and you think, "Solid player." Then you remember he was a shortstop (and a very good one) and you think, "Hall of Famer."

Andre Dawson - Sorry, Hawk. Not quite there.

Tommy John - 288 wins is a lot in anyone's book. And his .555 winning percentage, while not outstanding, certainly is line with several Hall of Fame pitchers with less victories. I'd vote him in.

Bert Blyleven - I think John should go in before Blyleven. The fact his best seasons came at the start of a long career hasn't helped since there is a perception of Blyleven as a guy who "hung around". Additionally, his winning percentage was not all that good. Granted, he won 287 games and struck out 3,701 hitters. He's another tough case. I'd put Jim Kaat in before him, but that's just me.

There you have it. I'd pick 4 of the 9.

Answer 2

I am totally in favour of Gossage, Blyleven and Dawson making it.
Rice and Trammell I am ok in or out.
I don't think Parker, Mattingly or John should be in.

Gossage as mentioned was one of those closers that you could always count on,
Blyleven had 286 (or 288) wins with a number of bad teams, Dawson was 'close' to that 3000 hit/500 home run club. (2774 and 438)

Rice was great for a few seasons, very good for a few more then average. Mattingly's issue was only injury and I know most people point to Puckett and say 'where's the love', but Mattingly's dominence was 6 years.
Both are much like Dale Murhpy (who you may have forgot about)

John pitched fine for a long time on better teams, a few more years and he is Don Sutton.

Just my opinion

Answer 3

Jim Rice - Yes
Dwight Evans - No
Dave Parker - No
Rich "Goose" Gossage - Had he quit at 37, yes. He played 5 more years that hurt his numbers overall. No.
Don Mattingly - Yes
Alan Trammell - Yes
Andre Dawson - No

Why add Bert Blyleven? He had one 20 win season and had 11 seasons under .500. To his credit he did win 37 more game than he loss overall.

Twenty-two years of mediocre baseball is not worthy of the hall. Longevity is not a stat.

You boys need to get over it.

Answer 4

Yes, without question -- Blyleven, Gossage. I think Goose gets the golden ticket in 2008.

Would look good on a plaque but the Hall is not suffering for their absences -- Rice, Evans, Trammell, Dawson. Dawson, were he elected, would have the worst career OBP by a primary outfielder among HOFers, and he'd earn that distinction by about -20 points. That's really quite ugly. (And it's not the number that is important; it's what that number indicates about how he played the game. That's a real shortcoming.)

No, and the drugs thing doesn't help him any -- Parker. C'mon, the Cobra blew some of what should have been his best years up his nose. Now, to me, that's his choice, but fans should recognize that he ripped us off, and that doesn't deserve the highest individual honor the game offers. Not a smart choice, but baseball is a demanding sport, and nasal candy might have taken his game to the next level, but it was in the wrong direction.

No, not nearly enough good seasons, essentially no great ones -- John. I would gladly advocate Dr. Frank Jobe for the Hall, however. His impact on the game has been second only to Marvin Miller among off-field personnel.

C'mon, Yankee fans, puh-leeze! enough already -- Mattingly. Was very good to great; got injured, fell off a cliff, doesn't measure up. Health concerns have felled greater players than Donnie. Get Over It Already.

Long ago, I had this exchange with some random, pro-Don Yankee fan (paraphrased):
Chipmaker: Mattingly was good, but not Hall-good.
Yankee fan: You're forgetting his intangibles! He was a Great Leader!
Chipmaker: what did he ever lead his team to?
Yankee fan: well, those 1980s teams were unleadable.
Chipmaker: then how can we credit him for leadership?
Yankee fan: (total radio silence, never heard from again).

While the pinstripes have been worn by many a great player, and many who deservedly wound up in the Hall, realize that the pinstripes alone do not confer greatness. Causality doesn't work that way.

Answer 5

I would REALLY like to see a source which shows that more than half of the BBWAA members have not been to a game in ten years. I think that is highly unlikely and need more than a number pulled out of thin air.

And frankly, I don't see any of them as an outrageous exclusion from the Hall. They were all very good players. Some (like Evans and Dawson) were quite good for quite awhile. Parker and Rice were great for a little while.

But none of them were either great enough at their peak or good enough for long enough to crack the line.

The list is too long to go into detail. But they don't tend to match up on Black Ink or Grey Ink tests or on similarity scores. I still think those are three of the best methods we have of looking at players' numbers in context.

Answer 6

Well because of my age I won't be able to answer some of them but i'll do my best with the others. Goose Gossage IMO is the best closer to ever pitch -- he use to nail down 3 inning saves on a regular basis -- nowadays anything more than 1 inning is impressive. Mattingly definately -- great all-around player but IMO he was better with the glove. Alan Trammel is one that can go both ways. Finally, Andre Dawson is a YES.
- Joba Chamberlain Jr.

Answer 7

yes
no
no
yes
yes
no
yes

Burt Blylevyn however its spelled should DEFINITELY be in. Tommy John should as well even if just for the operation being successful with him. Anything that can have that significant of an effect on the game should get you into the HOF, the surgeon should go in also.

Answer 8

Jim Rice without question is deserving in my mind. All of the others are a crap shoot, maybe, maybe not. There is one I can't believe you left off being a Yankee fan, how about Tommy John at 288 career wins? What about Bert "be home" Blyleven?

Answer 9

The only two I see are Gossage and Parker. You know what upon furthere reflection no unhu none of 'em. Sorry. If mattingly takes over for torre, he may have a shot as a manager.

Answer 10

Jim Rice - Yes
Alan Trammell - Yes, cause I'm a Detroit homer
Tommy John - Yes, only in the "Surgery" wing though

All others are a no