Americans... not partisians, are you ready to face reality?

Question

Hitler said "how fortunate for those in power that people do not think." In current age of celebrity gossip and reality tv the apathy of the nation is obvious. But we have failed to heed the warnings and chart the triumphs of past.

Speaking historically, not only do we look like Germany in January of 1933 (a great people striving to reclaim their former glory), but the United States looks exactly like the Roman Empire just before it fell (outsourcing, illegal immigration, war between the Tigris and the Euphrates, a people divided, etc.). These are scary times we live in my friends. There seems that there is only 3 outcomes left.

1. Perserve the Republic and lose the empire (our dominance as Britain did after WWII)
2. Keep the empire and lose the republic (as Rome did under Augustus and Germany under Hitler)
3. Implode by doing neither.

Is this realistic? Is history repeating itself yet again? Or am I simply paranoid having read too much Edward Gibbon?

Trotter open up your email options and please explain how a man with a master's in history and Ph.d in classical studies has a warped view of history.

I love how those with no backing to their arguments spit venom then run and leave their email me option unchecked.

Answer 1

I think you are spot on. Those who are labelling you paranoid are perfect examples of the people that "do not think". They are the ones that have more interest in the next pop superstar than the reality that surrounds them.

The US is in a desperate state of affairs. greed has corrupted the US just like it did Rome and Britain and now the country is beginning to divide. People can only be kept down for so long before they stand up and fight.

History is great at giving lessons but the majority are great at ignoring the lessons of the past and are continually guilty of hiding under the duvet and hoping they will be all right.

I think preserve the republic and lose the empire is the way to go. Such a move would gain the US world wide respect and reduce the current level of hostility. This was the same for Britain. Their most recent military withdrawal from N. ireland has brought Ireland, N. Ireland and England much closer than ever before. People don't respect bullies but they certainly do respect those who conduct themselves with humility and recognise their mistakes and correct them.

Answer 2

Not trying to be mean, but my vote is for too much Gibbon.

It's a different time now. We have a Global economy and society that we must take into account. Those two things alone add more dynamics than all of your examples combined, what with Foreign Policies, Foreign Relations, Dependancy/CoDependancy, Economic Structures and Implications, Global Defense, National Defense. The wanning of the old European powers and the rising of the "BRIC" (Brazil, Russia, India, China) countries and their economies. The Implications of the U.S. imploding, the Power Vaccum left in the aftermath. This isn't even mentioning the headway we're making in moderat Islamic Countries and North Korea. Additionally, many of the governments that first protested the Iraq War have since been kicked out in favor of more U.S. friendly governments (France, Germany, Canda).... I could go on and on.

Check out this article on the global economic reality and what our current Foreign Policy is doing about it, it's quite good and very enlightening.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070301faessay86203/daniel-w-drezner/the-new-new-world-order.html

Answer 3

The comparison to 1933 Germany is absurd. Germany was in complete chaos in the early 30s, suffering from hyperinflation, crushing war reparations, and the lingering sting of defeat in WWI. The USA is hardly in economic turmoil, just the usual uncertainty of a still mostly-capitalist, mostly-market-driven economy, has not surrendered to it's enemies, and is not (quite) facing the stark choice between communism and fascism that the German voters in 1933 were looking at.

The Rome comparison is more apt. America is both a culture and a state in decline. Compared to rome in the final days, it's only been in decline for a very brief period, but it's still not a comletely invalid analogy - perhaps, it's an easier analogy to draw because of the differences, rather than the similarities. America is certainly not an empire in the Roman model, but it is a dominant global force, just as Rome dominated the 'world' of it's day, and it is 'decaying from within.'

Answer 4

Had Gibbons actually traveled to Rome and been granted access to Roman records for his research I might agree with the reasons he stated for its fall .

Simply put I believe it was not a fall but a weakening state that eventually collapsed in sexual depravity and drunkenness . Due to the wealth and power structure of Rome generations were born into privilege and wealth only to spend away not only family wealth but loot the coffers of the state for projects they could collect fees from . Dragging the nation down over several hundred years .
They lost the respect of the people and without the people being united and willing to follow the leaders it declined into ruin .

A nation is nothing more then its infrastructure and its ability to defend itself .

We have let one of these decline into ruin already as evidenced by our lack of concern over repair work and the safety of our bridges .

That only one has collapsed is not the issue but that one could collapse is .

If this nation does not concern itself with whats going on right here it will go the path of so many other nations .

Answer 5

Excellent question. If only there were simple answers. I do agree that we are outsourcing our jobs and ultimately our economy. It will not be long until the Chinese are hiring us to put together their toys for pennies an hour if we are not careful. At one point we had a choice, to be the producer of goods for the Chinese and prosper into the future or to allow the Chinese to produce goods for us and save a few bucks now. We all know which path we are on.

Of course, it is not just the outsourcing of the means of production. We have become apathetic as a nation. Our founding fathers envisioned a country based on personal responsibility where people voted their conscience providing for the collective good. Not one where people feel disenfranchised to the point that most eligible voters do not even bother going to the polls.

Answer 6

i and many others share your concerns and can see the parallels, and we have not learned from history. However, the structure of our empire is not so imperialistic as the Romans, but maybe more like Great Britain which chose to let the empire go and retained a Republic.

America's case is specific and I think the rise of China will have much to do with the outcome. Or maybe something unforeseen will happen, like the monetary system of the world becomes singular and the American empire dissolves or absorbs into a one world government.

"History does not repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
-Mark Twain

Answer 7

I, too, have seen this. The United States is like the Roman Empire in its end days. I'm afraid one of these is going to fall never to rise up again. It seems the U.S. is suffering from the same ailments as the Romas did before their collapse. I think we should do option number 2. I think any othe country that has the sort of power we do, will only use it for evil.

Answer 8

No, it's not realistic. It's propaganda from radical Islam. Congratulations on being 'had'.

Sorry, I don't want nutcases emailing me. I lived in Europe. They've been saying what you're preacing for years. It's a talking point. Some people are taken in -- others just roll their eyes at the ignorance. They also believe all the evil things radical Islam says about Israel.

Answer 9

I actually agree. We need to make some changes over the next twenty years or it will be too late.

Answer 10

The number of "you are just paranoid" answers is expected. It isn't paranoia, it is grasping what is outside of the box - which I guess is hard for many people to do.