Where are all the Psychopaths?

Question

My sister, a Psychology Major, tells me up to 4% of the population can be classified as Psychopaths but only 2% of the prison population fits this classification. Therefore, it appears as if they avoid prison. It is her contention that one can find more psychopaths in board rooms or in political office than in prison.
What do you think?

Vegas: If only 2% of the prison population are psychopathic & 4% of the general population are, then the psychopath is only 1/2 as likely to go to prison as one who is not a psychopath. Chuckle I'm an engineer & you picked the wrong person to tell they made a math mistake. I deal daily in probability & statistics... think about it before you pop off!

From a layman's point of view, some undergrad courses in psychology & some reading... the psychopath has high self esteem but lacks the ability to empathize with others. This is not to imply they do not have emotions or that they cannot control their urges... only that they are totally self serving & very good at masking their inability to empathize or care about anyone but themselves.

Vegas: You are right to question this as I do. However, I am looking for answers to this perplexing situation where the people most feared by society are the people least likely to be imprisoned.

John: Yes, her contention is that lack of loyality to anyone but themselves is a plus factor in politics & business.

Coop 366: Yes, they are simply too smart to be mistaken & those that don't see it their way are just wrong. They are also masters of manipulation & great natural actors.

Ruthie: Yes, my sister does say the nice neighbor is a good candidate for a psychopath. These people are likely to have an outgoing personality on the surface because it helps them to manipulate others. They simply can't keep the mask in place during a long term relationship.

Guru: That would come under multiple disorders... Psychopaths do not hallucinate. Many other disorders can incapictate.

Ebmid don't split hairs on calculations here, that is not the point. The % is an estimate to begin with.

Sarah: The psychopath is not likely to end up on the street unless they are handicapped by some other mental problem. That may be another point to investigate since they have one defect, how likely are they to have others?

Ebmid... 24/49 is ~ 1/2. Chuckle, how would it have looked if I used 24/49?

http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

Answer 1

If there are 4% psychopats overall and 2% are in prison, then outside of prison there should be 4%-2%=2%. If ALL of these 2% would be in boardrooms and political offices (which is so hard to believe and even harder to prove), then their number would be roughtly equal to, not greater than, the number of emprisoned psychopats! So the statement that there're MORE psychopats in board rooms than in prisons is mathematically incorrect.
Second, I really don't think ALL (or most of) free psychopats gather in boardrooms and political offices. It's a statment that's meant to be shocking and original, but unfortunately unsuported by evidence. Oh, and what do we do with the psychopats in mental hospitals? That messes up the ratios even more.
Your sister's idea was probably inspired by the documentary "the Corporation", a quite interesting film which tries to prove that modern corporations have a psychopatic nature. It's just a methaphor not meant to be taken litterally. It would be quite a stretch to extrapolate this statement litterally to the actual people who populate boardrooms.

Ed: I admit, I assumed (wrongly) from your question that 2% of the total psychopatic population is in prison. Mea culpa. Good for you if you're in engineering, BUT: there's still insufficient information to draw any consistent conclusions. 1) We don't know what percentage of the total population is represented by prison population. 2) We don't know how much of the psychopatic population is in mental hospitals 3) I don't see how we can estimate the percentage of psychopatic population that are in leading positions in business or politics.

PS: Here's another idea: what if we are comparing apples and oranges here? I'm sure there are various degrees of psychopathy. Quite possibly the psychopaths in leading positions have not reached the point of committing a crime, so naturally they're not in prison. On the other hand, the emprisoned psychopaths are the more "severe" cases who have already committed a crime. If we think that way, we CAN'T infer that psychopats in leading positions tend to AVOID prison. And that's simply because, many or few as they are, they haven't reached the point where they deserve to go there!!
Along the same lines, we CAN'T safely say that "there are more psychopaths in boardrooms than in prisons", because we are talking about 2 groups with DIFFERENT degrees of psychopathy (non-dangerous vs. dangerous), which renders them uncomparable.

Hey Ed:
Thanks for sharing R. Hercz's article with us, it was really interesting. It reminded me of the movie American Psycho (2000). Clinically speaking, the movie's main character was depicted quite accurately! And the movie reflects your theory quite well...
Just wanted to highlight a couple of things:

1) even if Dr. Hare implies there might be a lot of psychopaths in business leadership, the author admits: "thanks to Hare, we now understand that the great majority of psychopaths are NON VIOLENT CRIMINALS and never will be." Maybe that explains why a lot of them are not emprisoned. Thus we can't really say they try to AVOID prison, if their actions do not qualify for that.

2) According to the article, "Hare estimates that 1 PERCENT of the population... [ in Canada ] are psychopaths." Also in Canada, "in a typical prison population, about 20 PERCENT of the inmates satisfy the Hare definition of a psychopath, but they are responsible for over half of all violent crime."

If we do the math just as we did for US, it turns out that in Cananda a psychopath is approximately 25 TIMES more likely to go to prison than a non-psychopath! Again, we can't really infer they AVOID prison in Canada, correct?

Just to clarify: I'm not trying to defend psychopaths here, I'm just trying to make an unbiased judgment and not fall so easily for a "sensationalist" statement! A lot of people fall for sensationalist ideas just because they sound intriguing or they voice some of their hidden frustrations. Something along the lines of: "It's no wonder I can't accede to top management, when all top managers are psychopats!!" It's easy to understand why such a thesis would become popular.

That's why I'd rather play the devil's advocate and turn the statement over many times before considering it valid.

Answer 2

Most psychopaths are not dumb, they are probably some of the highly intelligent men in the world. As for emotions, take love for a normal person it is a give and take. A psychopath love is a possession, they own you. I think your sister may have the number a little low. Some show their weakness by getting locked into a situation, they know they are right and nothing anyone can say to will change it. They will die rather than admit they are wrong. It's time for me to get off my soapbox.

Answer 3

I doubt I could give you a "best answer" for this question. I just wanted to let you know I think this is a good question and I'll definitely stay tuned.

Nevertheless, my opinion is this: I really believe many of these people end up on the streets. I've read estimates that over 75% of the homeless population are considered mentally ill (psycopaths or otherwise).

Can anyone elaborate on this?

Answer 4

You said: "If only 2% of the prison population are psychopathic & 4% of the general population are, then the psychopath is only 1/2 as likely to go to prison as one who is not a psychopath."

That is not true. If only 2% of the prison population are psychopathic & 4% of the general population are, then the psychopath is only 1/2 as likely to go to prison as someone selected at random, who might or might not be a psychopath.

But psychopaths are only 24/49 times as likely to go to prison as one who is not a psychopath. That's a little less than half as likely.



The calculations:
Assume that there are X psychopaths in prison and Y psychopaths that aren't in prison. If 2% of the prison population are psychopaths, then that would mean there are 49X nonpsychopaths in prison. If 4% of the general population are psychopaths, then the number of nonpsychopaths that aren't in prison is:
((X+Y)/0.04)-49X-X-Y
which can be simplified to:
24Y-25X.


The probability of a psychopath going to prison is X/(X+Y).

The probability of a nonpsychopath going to prison is:
49X/(49X+24Y-25X)
which can be simplified to:
49X/(24X+24Y)

So if you want to calculate how likely a psychopath is to go to prison compared to a nonpsychopath, it'd be:
X/(X+Y)/(49X/(24X+24Y))=
(24X+24Y)*X/((X+Y)*49X)=
(24X+24Y)/((X+Y)*49)=
24*(X+Y)/((X+Y)*49)=
24/49


Anyway, psychopaths might not care whether or not they hurt other people. But they care whether or not they go to prison, and they understand that if they hurt other people, then they will go to prison. So they won't necessarily go to prison.

On the other hand, not caring whether or not you hurt other people does make you well qualified for political office. And some would say board rooms too.

Answer 5

Okay first I think you need to tell everyone that a "psychopath" is someone who has Anti-Social Personality Disorder or someone who is a sociopath. A person with Anti-Social Personality disorder lie, cheat, steal, show little to NO sense of responsibility for their actions, and are often intelligent and charming when you first meet them. "Psychopaths" are of above average intelligence person who lacks the ability to recognize others as worthy of compassion. Psychopaths believe that they are superior to the people around them.

The common board member and political head will lie, cheat, steal, show little to NO sense of responsibility for their actions and are often sweet and charming when you first meet them.

Most psychopaths aren't killers which is why they aren't crowding our prisions. They are just simply put people without a conscience they take what they want and live how they please. So yes I agree with your sister.

Answer 6

They are married to nice, sensitive, caring women who protect and enable them. I was co-dependent with one for years and years. I left finally. I decided I didn't have to die to part--" 'til death do us part., you know". Many women and probably men too are so intimidated by the psychopath in their marriage wanting to protect the family they live with the messed up people. I contend, it is not so much the board rooms or political offices, but the HOMES of the innocent & the golf courses are where they hide!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answer 7

I think she is right. Being a psychopath does not mean that you are a criminal, it just means that you are unable to feel sorry for other peoples misery. As a tough businessman or politician it is a great ability. You see them using it daily.

Answer 8

Given the current state of world and national events I would tend to agree with her. We have a President who believes he is leading by the will of God. Cabinet member who follow his lead, and Senators and Congress-persons who spend too much time talking out of both side of their face. If that isn't the mission of psychopaths and sociopaths. Then my definition must be wrong.

Answer 9

There are many schizophrenic psychopaths, but they obviously don't go to prison, in fact that would make their condition worse, they are all in mental hospitals.

Answer 10

We are all psychopaths... in the eyes of a psychopath

Heard of the saying?

"I am a sane person living in an insane world"