would feeder fish work for cycling an aquarium?

Question

the feeder fish are those small minnow things that they sell for food to bigger fish(in case anyone didnt know) i plan on adding one or two to my 10 gal tank. i dont want to use(kill) guppies or mollies because thats probably what the tank is going to be for anyway. so are feeder fish ok? will they eat small goldish pellets that we have? will they survive long enough? if i need smaller food ill just crush the goldfish pellets. i mean the managers of the pet store must SOMEHOW keep these fish alive right, so they must feed them. my only worry is if feeder fish are perfect, then will they eat to stay alive? or will they die after a day or two. thank you people

Answer 1

I would not recommend using feeders for cycling. Not only is this less effective and humane, it may introduce diseases that will get your aquarium off to the wrong start.


There are three different methods I recommend that do not require a fish be sacrificed. You can also add starter products as well such as Bio Spira, although if this high priced product is not properly stored it will be useless.

Here are the mehtods I recommend:

[1] My preferred cycling method is to transfer filter media (sponges work best) from an established aquarium along with some gravel, then introduce the fish SLOWLY after 5-7 days. The method of adding “aged” media is much faster (you still have to take it slow), and provides all the necessary bacteria, the only negative is adding disease pathogens to your aquarium, but I have rarely encountered this problem. To prevent this transfer of disease pathogens and parasites, only use a media source where no new fish have been added in 30 days, ALL water parameters are good, and if possible has UV Sterilization (although not necessary).


Also keep in mind that many pathogens such as pseudomonas are usually present in a healthy aquarium, but when fish are stressed, the fish are in poor health due to poor feeding and lack of proper minerals, and/or water conditions are less than desirable- these pathogens will be opportunistic and cause a disease in the fish.
We used this method for our Aquarium Maintenance route for years and never lost a fish to Ammonia or nitrite poisoning, and disease transfer was minimal.


Another product that does not necessarily help speed up the cycling process itself, but de-toxifies the ammonia and nitrites during this process, allowing for less stress on fish is "Prime"

[2] Another method is fishless cycling where un-scented pure ammonia is poured into the aquarium (3-5 drops per gallon pure ammonia or 1-2 teaspoons per 10 gallons) so as to bring your ammonia level to 3-4 ppm. Then it takes about 2-6 weeks (usually about 3 weeks) for the aquarium to cycle (when your ammonia and nitrites have dropped to 0).

Although this method is growing in popularity, I do not recommend it for a few reasons, not because it does not work (it does);
*This method does not add actual bacteria (and is not really any quicker than the method below: adding fish food to a fishless aquarium) and because human nature is to want to add fish sooner than the 2-6 weeks it takes for this method.
*It is still not as quick as my preferred method above (seeded media, gravel, sand, live rock).
*This method is especially dangerous when used with live rock and/or sand that has already been added as the ammonia will kill me organisms that reside in live rock adding even more ammonia and pollution to your tank thus defeating the reason for this method.

[3] Another method is the gradual addition of fish food to an otherwise empty aquarium (no fish). This can be a very effective means of cycling that is preferred by many experienced aquarists. This method takes about the same time as the pure ammonia method (2-6 weeks, usually about 3).
This is my preferred method when aged bio media is not available (not everyone has a friend or helpful local fish store to give them some aged media).

4 ppm is a typical fishless cycling target whether using the fish food method or ammonia. Lower (7 ppm) or higher (3 ppm) is also fine for healthy bacterial colony growth (based on mine and others in the maintenance community’s experience).
Regardless of fishless cycling method chosen, the bio load is always going to be in flux (higher or lower). When higher is needed, nitrifying bacteria double in population in 18 to 24 hours. When less are needed, they die back and are consumed by each other.


The method of adding “aged” media is much faster (you still have to take it slow), and provides all the necessary bacteria, the only negative is adding disease pathogens to your aquarium, but I have rarely encountered this problem. Keep in mind as discussed earlier, because nitrifying bacteria adhere to surfaces like glue, aged aquarium water is ineffective for cycling, but it can be useful for proper water nutrient levels in a new
aquarium.

For further information about the nitrogen cycle and cycling methods, please read this article:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

EDIT:
Not to start a debate as you have received good advice here from all.
But as to Prime, both my own tests (as well as others in the aquarium maintenance community and SeaChem), the ionic form of ammonia and nitrites can be used by nitrifying bacteria., which why Prime is NOT a replacement for proper cycling.

Here is a quote form the above site I referenced:
“The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound”.

I would actually be more concerned with products such as Stress Coat which brand new research show can cause toxic water reactions when mixed with certain nitrate removing resins such as Purigen; see this article: http://aquarium-answers.blogspot.com/2007/04/aquarium-water-conditioners.html

Answer 2

The feeders will work,but beside the fact that it's cruel to use any fish to cycle a tank,feeders are notorious disease carriers. This is because breeders and distributors treat them a second class citizens,and water purity or freedom from disease is a secondary concern.
Look in to fishless cycling as a possibility.
Also the product mentioned by another answerer,if it works, is the first of this kind of product that does. The reasons are twofold,#1the bacteria that we cultivate (Nitrosomonas and Nirtobacter) only remove the toxins from the water after they have formed colonies on solid surfaces in the tank,and #2 it just takes time for these colonies to form.
There are ways to speed up the use of a tank,mainly by using a cycled filter from another tank,or moving a seasoned piece of filter media from a well cycled tank to the new one,although this is not the same as having a completely cycled system.
You could actually just add a little fish food every day or so without having any fish in the tank at all,and get the same results.
As to what to feed the feeders,pet stores usually feed them whatever is left lying around or nothing at all. Any fish can go for very long periods of time without eating. It's almost impossible to starve a fish.(It would take months.)
The test for complete cycling is when the Nitrate numbers start to rise. This is evidence that the Nitrobacter colonies are converting Nitrites into Nitrates,which means that there are Nitrosomonas colonies converting Ammonia into Nitrites to nourish the Nitrobacter colonies. All of the free-floating bacteria in the world won't hurry this colonizing process at all.

Answer 3

now-a-days your can cycle a tank in 1-2 weeks with a product called biospira (sp?) rather than the standard 4-8 weeks. i would buy that product ($10-$15 for a 30 gallon bottle) and the guppies or mollies because both of those fish will be hardy enough to deal with the cycle after that product is introduced. the benefit to doing that is that you don't have a couple of ugly feeder fish. make sureyou get aratio of 3 females to 1 males if buying guppies. i would only buy that many and wait a month, you'll have a ton of baby fish and then once raise you can trade them wit your petstore for store credit.

also it is kind of inhumane to put feeder fish through the starting stages of cycling a tank. i just recently read that it's like ingesting bleech in humans. it burns them really badly and isn't a peaceful way to die. sadly, i just did this to 50 feeder goldfish in a 75 gallon tank myself due to lack of knowledge of biospira (only 5 lived 2 weeks later).

also don't add too many fish at once. 1 or 2 at a time helps to not flood te system with waste before bacteria has formed to break the waste down.

Answer 4

Feeders would work, but like PeeTee and Carl said, that would not be my first choice by far. If you want to use fish, and you only have a ten gallon tank, a few white clouds or a few zebra danios will do just fine. They don't produce massive waste and as long as you feed them just enough food to eat in a couple minutes with no excess you should be fine.

Carl wrote you up some fine input on this, and it's not my intention to spark a debate or down the man, but in all roundness to the points as well, BioSpira has come in with numerous reports of not working as advertised and I would not reccomend the money to spend on it. I've tried it on a couple tanks, second time to verify my findings, and found it does not do what you'd expect it to do. First tank I put it in, did absolutly nothing for ammonia but did good work on my nitrites. The point being that if this contains live bacteria, then it should very well have had an immediate impact, mid cycle on my readings. There really is no disputing that. So I figured ok maybe I just got a bad batch. Used it on my 15 gallon set up from the start. I've done four tanks alone this year, so this isn't my first time doing fish tanks, watched my food amounts and took daily readings ect...still took well over five weeks with the proper stocking to 0 out. BioSpira doesn't appear to work nearly as consistant as Dr. Foster's would like it to IMO. It may have well worked on other tanks, I won't say it's a failure, but certainly not the miracle they (Dr. Fosters) feels it is.

Prime may well detoxify the ammonia but during your cycling, that's not really a good thing. This maybe a subject that's up for debate in scientific proof, by my understanding of moving Ammonia into Ion form makes it non toxic for fish, but also a useless form for the bacteria to use. AmmoLock for the most part, does the same thing, and products like these I only use in an emergency case and effect large water changes to go in hand with it. I wouldn't use any chemical means.

I very much agree and think the most effective and best way to speed up and ideal way to cycle a tank would be using the filter media and gravel from established tanks and I've done that myself now with four set ups this year, and there is no complaint at all or drawback I can find from doing so. That IMO is one of the best benefits you get ones you get your first tank completed. Second tanks down the road become faster and easier. I can't think of any advice given that's more effective or better then that.

I also feel the most effective way to control your ammonia levels is to really limit that food amount you give, and can even go to feeding every other day. You will not cause any detriment to the fish in the water, other then the ammonia and nitrite that becomes present. By focusing on keeping those levels as far under lethal range as possible, you minimize any levels of damage they might incur. I've not done a fishless cycle nor do I feel it's a good thing to just subject fish to bad water conditions for the hell of it. The only reason I'm not a huge fan of fishless cycling is simply the amount of monitoring that invovles and keeping a constant ammonia source in the water once you clear that stage. All in all, you have great input from all your answers and this should arm you with what you need to decide what to do, which is the most important thing out of this.

Answer 5

the final element which you would be able to do now could be strengthen your water alterations to a million time an afternoon until the cycle is completed and attempt every day besides. 25-40%, in accordance the the quantity of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate is interior the water. needless to say the better the quantity, the better the water substitute, yet not at all do greater advantageous than a 50% water substitute. Please don't get to any extent further fish or different moist pets for the tank until it has completely cycled. Please do not purchase any "bacteria in a bottle" like rigidity zyme. it extremely is extremely valueless except you prefer to apply it as quickly as a week for the completed existence of your aquarium. Letting the stay bacteria colonize needless to say is plenty greater advantageous than lifeless bacteria in a bottle.. the final product you should use now could be noted as top by ability of seachem. It detoxifies Ammonia and Nitrite mutually as nonetheless allowing it to be obtainable to the organic and organic filter out (solid bacteria) so the cycle can nonetheless progression mutually as your fish have 24 hours of a much less poisonous atmosphere. i does not concern approximately your pH until the cycle is completed and different parameters are solid. additionally, do not throw away your filter out cartridge, basically save it in there until it falls aside. you may rinse it with tank water so which you do not kill the bacteria. do not at all basically chuck it out..upload a clean cartridge in with the previous for a million month so the bacteria could properly be transferred. So, save finding out, get some top and do those water alterations every day. I desire you and your fish the very ultimate of excellent fortune. EDIT: just to provide help to be attentive to, yet another poster stated nano skimmer. that's a protein skimmer and basically works for saltwater tanks so there is not could desire to purchase it considering's going to be valueless to you. lol.

Answer 6

Listen to Jon V