Is the proposed European Treaty in fact the failed European Constitution under a different guise.?

Question

and if it is why can't we have a referendum like the Irish.If the politicians are truly there to represent the people what's so wrong in asking us what we want.Or are we going to be sold down the river again?

Answer 1

Even putting it to a referendum is no good. In Ireland we voted "no" on the Nice treaty, the government said "wait, that was the wrong answer, we wanted you to vote yes because voting no means that you are all racist"; another referendum was held a year later and it was voted in. How's that for democracy.

Answer 2

It is a similar but different text - gone are the references of the "symbols" of the Union (flag, anthem etc), gone is any reference to the "European Foreign Minister", the old text was 475 pages - the new one is 275 pages, an opt-out is now included for the UK in respect of the Charter of Fundamental Rights, the terminology of EU legislation is now unchanged and the EU doesn't have "legal personality" (i.e. allowing it to conclude international agreements by itself).

Basically, what has happened is that the Constitutional Treaty has been stripped down to the "bare essentials", i.e. it concentrates on the necessary changes to the decision-making procedure to allow an organisation of 27 States to perform effectively.

Ireland will have a referendum because it is provided for in their Constitution - "every proposal for amendment of this Constitution shall be [...] submitted by referendum to the decision of the people" (article 46).

In the UK, there's no such right, we don't have a codified constitution and the conclusion of international agreements is a "royal prerogative", i.e. the Queen alone can do it, in practice the responsibility is delegated to the PM who can enter the Treaty on behalf of the UK without the consent of Parliament, but in practice he will put the Treaty to a vote.

There will be no referendum because the British people, helped by the well-funded Eurosceptic right-wing Murdoch Press, have been poisoned against Europe over the past 20 or so years and are not therefore expected to be able to vote objectively on the question.

Answer 3

Yes it is! Gordon brown is denying us a vote because he knows it would probably end with a no vote.New Labour PROMISED a referendum in their manifesto! Gordon Brown MUST honour that spledge!! All the politicians are now on the EU "gravy train"....traitors!
This is what other European ministers are saying about the Constitution............

The good thing about not calling it a Constitution is that no one can ask for a referendum on it.”
Giuliano Amato, Former Italian Prime Minister

“Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly.” “All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.” Making cosmetic changes would make the text more easy to swallow."
Giscard d’Estaing, Author of the European Constitution

“The aim of the Constitutional treaty was to be more readable; the aim of this treaty is to be unreadable… The Constitution aimed to be clear, whereas this treaty had to be
unclear. It is a success.”
Karel de Gucht, Belgian Foreign Minister

“BRITAIN is different. Of course there WILL BE TRANSFERS of SOVEREIGNTY. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?”
Jean Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg.

The EU is now a monolithic corrupt bureaucratic EU superstate with directives on everything. The government now say referendums are .....wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,UN-BRITISH! If a referendum is un-British, then so is lying to the voters.Unless the public fight this lying corrupt government,then yes, Gordon brown intends to sell us out. That's what makes him a fraud, a gross hypocrite and a betrayer of the very office he holds. Labour is all about breaking up the United Kingdom, making us smaller, less substantial, more divided. They are hateful anti-British ideologues who need to be thrown out of office,and we need to get out of the EU!!!.
www.proreferendumrally.co.uk

Answer 4

Of course it is and the British Government know it. It gives certain members of this (and a future) government a nice easy ride because when anything goes wrong or a stupid regulation comes into force they can blame the EC That is why they are dithering about a referendum giving them leave to betray their country

Answer 5

It's almost exacly the same. The only reason we can't have a treaty is because the majority of people want it which means that don't like the idea of it. We need to get out and make our own laws, not be governed by Brussles.

Answer 6

It is indeed, that is why our government is shying away from and fearing a referendum, I seem to remember them promising this a long time ago.Just goes to show how trustworthy they are !

Answer 7

Yes it is.

No this dishonest govt will not give us the chance to choose.

Yes,once again we are being sold down the river.