MISOGYNY and GANGSTA RAP?

Question

In his novel "Native Son", Wright claims that Bigger Thomas is a product of our society.

In the article below, bell hooks, asserts that "young black males", the ones who compose the often misogynistic lyrics, do not live in "a self created cultural vacuum".

http://stevenstanley.tripod.com/docs/bellhooks/misogyny.html

Do you agree or disagree? Why? What is your opinion on gangsta rap and the portrayal of women?

Absolutely no racist remarks will be tolerated.

The article is there so you can read it. Lol. Shark - you're getting old, mate.

Thanks everyone for reading the article and giving your honest opinions. Anthony - thanks for the suggestion.

Answer 1

I for one fully believe that culture is derivative. People make culture, not vice-versa. So I agree with hooks that it's ludicrous to blame gangsta' rappers for conspicuous consumption, misogyny, or any number of the things that are laid at its feet. People buy the message because it resonates with some part of them that is already there.

What hooks does not realize is that "gangsta rap" is not typical of most rap music. She is right to see gangsta rap as essentially a commodity sold by record companies that is a caricature of black life in America, sold mostly to white suburbanites. Its closest historical parallel is the minstrel show. I'd have liked to see her talk about other rap music though, and it's role as an art form...

I feel like hooks has "white supremacist capitalist patriarchy" programmed in as a Macro on her word processor and just pops it down when it seems to fit. It's her catch-all to describe what she sees as an oppressive society. Like all labels, there's enough truth in parts of it to make it seem plausible, but it's problematic as well. I'm not sure most people would accept the label to describe themselves or their society, so she's using it in a sense that most people embody those values somewhere in their subconscious, even as they reject them in their conscious mind. That's a hard argument to make.

Also, the legal barriers to equality between ethnicities and sexes are largely gone. hooks is arguing that cultural things like gangsta rap are what endure to reinforce the boundaries of race and gender. But at the same time, she sees cultural things like gangsta rap as a product of the "white supremacist capitalist patriarchy." So I sit here and wonder--chicken or egg? Because I think she wants to have it both ways and I don't think it makes sense to do that.

There it is--does it seem like I've written one too many graduate school papers?

Great question--I give you a star.

Answer 2

Its funny, me and my husband were in the projects visiting family today and I had a conversation about this with a young boy, about 10 years old. I think a big part of the problem is that the crack epidemic wiped out mothers and fathers for a large portion of this generation, leaving a lot of vulnerabilities.

This kid had all these dreams, yet he was trying so hard to portray this stereotyped image of what he thought a 'man' was. His mother was a single mother of 4 who is apparently hiding from the law. He, like many many others just had no guidance, not much access to answers to the basic questions. He was obviously extremely intelligent and had a lot of life experience for a kid his age. You should have seen the way his eyes lit up when we told him he doesn't have to be a 'baller' to be successful, that he could go to school for sports medicine or business and be even more successful in sports. He was really listening to my husband when he told him what was really wrong about 'having' a lot of girls. I was amazed that he had never been told these things before. Even more amazing is that he was carrying on this conversation while 4 police were chasing a drug dealer all through the neighborhood, and he seemed more interested in what we had to say.

Whats makes me sad that he knows what is right, and he wants what is right. Unfortunately until he is 18 he will be at the mercy of his mother (who has him years behind in school) and will be at the mercy of the system very soon. He will then be turned loose into the world, with nothing to fall back on except for fleeting words of advice from a few sitcoms and some strangers he met in passing. Record contract anyone?

Answer 3

I think the government hates idiots going around and not talking properly (ie. Gangsta? do they mean gangster, or "Da" that's what my 2 yr old say's for "The" so these people must have an education of a 2 yr. old) Maybe it's the fact the the "Gangsta's" are really a bunch of sissy's. they can't man up and fight fist to fist, and they want to think they are tough. Any moron can shoot a gun. That's not tough.

Answer 4

Read "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. Black culture is basically a survival of the antebellum white "cracker" culture of the south. They think it's rebellious against white culture, but it's really just a holdover from their master's culture. That explains alot, including the misogyny you're talking about, and even the macho dog fighting behavior in the news.

A bigger story is why liberals and feminists do not speak out over the inherent violence, bigotry and sexism of black rap culture. For leftists, white corporate and religious culture is the enemy, and they will ally with any group which helps tear that down--even felonous and murderous rappers.

Answer 5

imo - the lack of GOOD parenting and GOOD role models for most of the "ghetto" boys AND girls is the cause for the bravado of BOTH women and men in the "ghetto" - imo

What about the chicken heads and welfare divas? Wouldn't they be at least partially to blame for white women being upset with gangsta rap lyrics?

imo - more love and respect / less hate and judgment - imo

Answer 6

It sounds like she had her conclusion, and developed her theory to accommodate that pre-conceived conclusion. I'm just not sure why she thinks people should take responsibility for other people's actions.
I'm not sure why anyone doesn't take responsibility for their own actions. This victim complex that she's giving people to excuse their behaviors and displace the blame, harms the individuals she's trying to help more than anyone possibly could. Treat people like victims and they will act like victims. Excuse their behavior by displacing the blame onto another group, will promote such behavior to continue.
It's also apparent who she dislikes(or hates) based on their skin color/gender.

I'm trying to be as clear about my answer as possible...
"Everyone has the ability to accomplish anything(within reason) in life!!!!! Take responsibility for everything you do and work hard and smart. I have full faith in anyone, given the will, the drive, and the desire."

This is the stuff that true oppressors don't want me or anyone else saying. The true oppressors don't care about her article, because it holds them down. Playing the victim. The day that people say "I'm responsible for my actions, and I can accomplish anything I put my mind to" is the day that they will no longer be oppressed by themselves, nor anyone else.

Answer 7

I agree that they don't live in a self-created vacuum. I don't know whether I agree with this, but I've heard it postulated that young African-American men from the impoverished inner-city come from a pseudo-matriarchal culture. Not truly matriarchal, but because of a lack of fathers, and the presence of the mother, a matriarchal family structure, but live in a society that's dominated by white patriarchal figures of immense power. Therefore, unable to effectively attack the white patriarchal power structure (although, listen to song's like "F@#$ the Police" and it does happen) the next in line is the familial matriarchal authority figure, African-American women. It would seem to me, if this were true, then it's symbolic and shows an anger not orignially intended for women per se, but aimed at them only after realizing (I guess subconciously?) that the main target, a white, patriarchal power authority, is impervious to attack.

Again, don't know whether I agree with it, I don't have enough statistical knowledge or the studies available to me to know whether to believe it or not.

Answer 8

Those guys are all for the sexual liberation of women, that's what feminism wanted isn't it? What are you complaining about?

And history_schmistory hit the nail smack on the head. Black communities are these days matriarchal because of the prevalence of single mother headed families.

This is the result.

Give it a decade or so and white men will go from singing love songs about women to the same sort of thing.

Answer 9

"Self created"? I don't think I agree with that. The "vacuum" they may live in is a result of many, many years of living with oppression and discrimination from and in a white-male- dominated society. Many people might disagree with what I'm about to say- but I think that the misogynistic lyrics/attitudes that are so prevalent in "gangsta rap" are a result of an unconsciously perceived "pecking order" that exists in white society: white males being at the "top" of the pecking order, men of other races being in the middle-to-low end, and women at the very bottom, (no matter what race they are). I must stress that this is, in my opinion, the result of many years of oppression. Some "gangsta rappers" seem to be saying "look at me- I'm so powerful-" (which would be great if they weren't using women (misongynistically) as merely a stepping- stool to getting there!) I think it's sad that they are reacting to their own oppression by adding to (probably mostly unknowingly?) to the already existent oppression of women. It seems to come down to the age old fallacy (mistake in thinking) that putting someone else down makes you feel better about yourself. I don't think that this kind of music is the product of any sort of a "feminist backlash" as this article seems to imply. It's a "backlash" against black oppression from a white male-dominated society. Women are the easiest targets for them to "safely" release their anger toward. This type of rap is sung by angry people, in my opinion...frustrated and desperate for society to show them some respect and esteem. It doesn't make it right, but it is somewhat understandable in this context. They feel somewhat "higher up on the class ladder" by putting down someone else. This is behavior that, however, I feel should not be accepted by anyone, in the interests of equality and peace.

EDIT: What comes to mind is an ANALOGY of two people drowning (remember the movie "Titanic"?), and one desperate person tries to keep from drowning (in this analogy it is the "gangsta rapper") by grabbing onto and trying to use another drowning person (women) as a "flotation device". The problem is, in his desperateness, he fails to realize that another drowning person can't possibly help keep him afloat...and with his hasty actions (bent on survival) he causes both of them to drown.....(and the rich, white aristocrats (and for the purposes of this analogy are white men) are sitting snugly in their lifeboats.)

Answer 10

When I was growing up in Canada we listened to American bands (Lynyrd Skynyrd), British bands (Queen) - and Canadian bands (The Guess Who).

There is a very good reason reason this genre of American music has been soundly rejected in the UK and elsewhere.

It's crap.