Sabra and Shatilla - September 15 is the day when tens of thousands, hopefully hundreds of thousands of people

Question

will march in Washington DC demanding an end to the war in Iraq and the US occupation of that country. It also marks the 25 anniversary of the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla. Is there anybody here who remembers that murderous event?

Earl, this man's story might help you to get a different perspective on the massacre at these two refuge camps. http://www.marcoabraham.com/Lost_Blood.html

I was hoping that there were some Lebanese, Palestinian or somebody from Syria, Iran or even Israel who remembers the events that took place in the refuge camps of Sabra and Shatilla in September 15,1982 Somebody here referred to the refugees as terrorists. If they can be labeled as terrorists then I fear that the word has truly lost any semblance to reality.

To Steve: WHAT????????? You sound like Big Brother in 1984. It's called Doublethink. War is Peace and Peace is War. No thank you but I don't buy your "Logic."

Answer 1

"On 16 September 1982, under the watchful eye of their Israeli allies who had encircled the area, Lebanese Christian militiamen entered Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps bent on revenge for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel.

There followed a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

The Chatilla/Sabra Massacre took the lives of 800 to 3500 civilians. It was organized by the then Minister of Defence Ariel Sharon. After securing the withdrawal of the PLO and other pro-Palestinian forces, the IDF besieged the Palestinian refugee camp of Chatilla/Sabra in violation of a US brokered ceasefire forbidding the IDF to enter West Beirut.
Sharon allowed entrance to 150 troops of the Phalangist Army of Lebanese Maronites, who were angry over the assasination of maronite PM Gemayel a day before. The IDF kept the camp surrounded and even provided light from flares at night.

"On September 11, the US pulled out the last of its forces sent in to guarantee the safety of the Palestinians under the Habib agreement, two weeks before its 30-day mandate expired. The US withdrawal triggered the departure of the other international forces. The net result was that the so-called international protectors of the Palestinians had presided over the disarming of the Palestinians and their allies and delivered them into the hands of those they most feared: the Israelis and the Christian militia.
As soon as Begin heard about Gemayel’s assassination, he ignored his promise to the US and ordered the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) to enter West Beirut. He justified his action to Habib’s deputy, Morris Draper, as necessary “to prevent acts of revenge by the Christians against the Palestinians” and to maintain order and stability after Gemayel’s assassination. A few days later, Sharon let the cat out of the bag. “Our entry into West Beirut was in order to make war against the infrastructure left by the terrorists,” he told the Knesset, Israel’s parliament. By this he meant the Palestinian civilians and their Muslim allies.

At 11:20 a.m. on September 16, Israel admitted that it controlled the camps. An Israeli press statement announced: “The IDF is in control of all the key points in Beirut. Refugee camps harbouring terrorist concentrations remained encircled and enclosed”.

two points need to be stressed: no one ever discovered any arms in the camps and the entry of the Christian militia did not follow any fighting. In other words, the events that followed were a premeditated massacre of innocent civilians. In the next 36 hours, Israel’s proxies, the Christian militia groups, went on a rampage, raping and killing people indiscriminately with knives and guns. People were tortured, including pregnant women, and the bodies of many of the victims were mutilated.

There were numerous reports that hundreds of men were rounded up during and after the massacre and taken to Israeli detention camps in southern Lebanon. Many of them were never seen again. While the exact number of those killed and injured is not known, Israel estimates suggest that about 800 were killed, although the Palestinian Red Crescent put the number at over 2,000. At least a quarter of these were Lebanese Shiite Muslims.

US intelligence had also learned of the killings. Morris Draper, the US special envoy, was in no doubt about Israel’s role. On September 17, he demanded of Israel: “You must stop the massacres. They are obscene. I have an officer in the camp counting the bodies. You ought to be ashamed. The situation is rotten and terrible. They are killing children. You are in absolute control of the area and therefore responsible for that area” (emphasis added).

While it rejected the accusation that the IDF had “prior knowledge” of the consequences, it did not accept Begin’s contention that the Israeli government had not expected or foreseen the tragic consequences of sending the Christian militia into the camps. The Commission noted that during secret meetings held between Bashir Gemayel and Mossad agents, Israeli officials “heard things from [Bashir] that left no room for doubt that the intention of the Phalange leader was to eliminate the Palestinian problem in Lebanon when he came to power—even if it meant resorting to aberrant methods against the Palestinians.” Furthermore, Israeli generals admitted that they used the Phalange militia because they could give them orders that they could not give to the Lebanese army."
http://wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/sab3-f25_prn.shtml

The massacre was premeditated. Proof is outstanding. There were no weapons found in the camp. The PLO had been completely evicted. Otherwise, why would only 150 troops have been deployed. Testimony from survivors points to the criminality of the event:
"The survivors reported overhearing the Phalangists telling one another to use axes to kill their victims, because the sound of gunfire would alert others to their fate."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1779713.stm

"Sharon’s claim that he was unaware of the enormous hatred for the Palestinians of the Maronite militia he helped send in to the camps was false, as he had been informed by intelligence officers and even members of the Israeli cabinet of this. Furthermore, it was common knowledge."
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_252.shtml

An Israeli report found Sharon to be directly responsible for the affair. "The preamble to the report states: “Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed.” In essence, the commission had no hard evidence that Sharon knew what would happen. But his plea of blissful ignorance of the general disposition of the Phalangists, in particular, their feelings toward the Palestinians in the wake of Gemayel’s assassination, and that some kind of excessive brutality was bound to occur is impossible to swallow. The tone of the commission’s report suggests they felt the same way."
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_252.shtml

The word genocide is often used to describe this heinous crime. While I would agree that a massacre alone could not encompass such evil as the word Genocide implies, given the record of Israeli aggression against the indigenous population of Palestine the Chatilla/Sabra Massacre fits well within a long term Israeli program to eliminate the only legitimately indigenous population of the land Israel claims for itself.

It has been 25 years and the IDF still kills Palestinian civilians routinely under various excuses. The IDF and its supporters have used the words militant and terrorist to denote all Palestinian males young or old since the Naqba itself. The western population is comfortable with the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people so long as they can be labeled "terrorists" This example is well followed by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. When you read 17 dead militants, believe they are not civilians if you want, the historical record would lead me to believe otherwise.

Peace.

Answer 2

1st of all: I don't think any of us "tree hugging" "peace freak" "liberals" really want the troops to just pull out and say "ok you fix it" to the Iraqis at this point-
We made the big mess and we know we need to stick it out and help rebuild after all the devastation we caused- We sure don't want another afghanistan...But we need a plan to know there is an end in sight.
2ndly: As far as Sabra and Shatilla, the Palestinian occupation, the Cuban issue, the Darfur problem, Bosnia, Kurds and Shiia in Syria and Iraq... and on and on and on....These are symptoms of a serious disease within our society...and major denial on the part of our society which has the power to help but can also afford to isolate and deny there are any problems-
When will we realize that none of us are free until we are all free?

Answer 3

I pray that the September 15 march will be a success. That march does not only have to reflect the war in Iraq but also the wars everywhere in the world. The march should reflect to PEACE & LOVE one another.
I don't recall Sabra/Shatilla but this is good time to march in rememberance of such events, such things should not be allowed to happen.

Answer 4

Oh yeah right!! Pull out of Iraq and let thousands more people get massacred!! Don't you realize that if there were no wars, there would be no peace anywhere? Think about it!!

Answer 5

Sorry, it just seems that the dead should be allowed to rest in peace instead of bothering them every four years.

Answer 6

what? one bunch of terrorists killing a bunch of other terrorists
and i'm supposed to care? sorry!
if i wanted to surreder in iraq it sure wouldn't have anything to do with that.