Let's assume that Senator Craig did what he's accused of?

Question

So what? Why should any of this be a crime? He may have done something wrong to his wife and family, but is this anyone else's business? And if he's judged to be a hypocrite by the voters (an anti-gay politician who seeks gay sex) isn't that simply an issue for the voters? Where are all you libertarians screaming out how wrong it is to criminalize these kind of activities?

He was attempting to meet someone to have sex, not actually having it. If bathrooms were unisex and a guy gave a typical pick-up line to a woman, should this constitute a "crime" in a "public space?"

Ender W: All very interesting, but we can't know if Craig meant to have sex in the public bathroom (an appropriately sanctionable behavior) or meant to meet some guy in the other stall to go off to a private place and have sex (not sanctionable). Is the crime here then too speculative? Doesn't one have to wait for more than what Craig allegedly did? I think in order to crack down on this kind of activity and make arrests, one has to catch two men much closer to the actual act inside the bathroom. As far as the act of soliciting a prostitute, he didn't offer the undercover cop money for sex.

Answer 1

The police report indicates that complaints being investigated alleged sex *in the stalls.* Not hookups going home to have sex elsewhere, but rather sex right there in the dang bathroom. This is consistent with the police report's description of Craig's actions, which involved putting a backpack in front of the door so as to block sight of feet. I shall answer this question with that in mind.

Dan Savage is under the impression that it's generally wrong to include somebody in your kinky sex without permission. I happen to agree with this opinion, but I thought the statement would carry more weight with a name attached to it.
Basically, meeting for random public sex is impolite primarily because you're doing it because it's public. This differs from activities within the home because you're not deliberately using other people to get off without their knowledge. Or with their knowledge, as I imagine is often the case.
What Sen. Craig does in the privacy of his home is between himself, his own, his pastor, and his constituents. What I do in my own home is even less important.

And yet, it's inappropriate to (for example) arrive at my mother's house with my girlfriend in a collar, berrating her for making us late and forcing her to eat a banana lewdly in the living room, because that's forcing somebody else to take part in our sexual play. Likewise, it's inappropriate to have sex in a bathroom stall for very similar reasons.

Answer 2

I've said many times I don't think that what he did was a crime. If his wife has problems with it that is a family matter for them to work out.

But I think that he sunk his own ship by quickly pleading guilty and then by resigning quickly after it became publicized. It was the republicans who attacked him and it was all pretty much over before any one had a chance to defend him.

Personally, I would have loved to see the voters in his state get a chance to get rid of him. But the Republicans did not want that to happen because they wanted to get a new guy appointed to run as an incombant and also did not want Craig to drag down a republican presidential candidate in his state.

This is all on the Republicans. Don't try to wipe off your dirty shoes on the Democrats.

Answer 3

We don't have to assume, he pled guilty.
That takes the assumption out of the equation, and soliciting sex in a public bathroom is illegal. If all he had done was announce he was gay, it wouldn't have made a difference to most of us. It isn't wrong to keep predators out of public bathroom, the same as prostitutes working the streets are invading the public space.
Do what you want in the privacy of your home, or even a club where the rules are well known and agreed to when you go in.
But not the public spaces.
Its nice to know you are unaware, but he wasn't going to meet the guy in the next stall, invite him out for dinner as they were washing up and then on to a motel.
It is simply sex in the stall. Yes for most of us thats unappetizing, but there it is.

Answer 4

No, men were actually having sex in that bathroom, which is why the cop was there in the first place. I don't troll bathrooms for gay sex, but my impression is that the deed is done right then and there. This isn't about hitting on guys for their phone number. Whether gay or straight, sex in a public restroom is not appropriate.

Answer 5

In a way I agree with you. His real crime is only hypocrisy. Just in the last couple of years we've seen several Republican/Conservative/Christian leaders caught in gay sex. These are people who have built their careers bashing gays and turn out to be gay themselves.

It's kind of wrong for these people to say that homosexuality is 'dangerous' and shouldn't be allowed, and then when one of their own is caught they say 'So what have you got against homosexuality? Why is that anyone's business but the participants?' I think people should be judged by their own values.

Remember also that Craig 'copped a plea', pled guilty to a lesser crime, signed a detailed confession, and paid the fine, expecting that it would be kept out of the papers. It was only when the local paper got wind of it and began investigating that Craig said he'd done nothing wrong and wanted to change his plea. Like many politicians who get caught doing something unsavory, he blamed the press. But isn't that their job? Like they say, in politics, light is the greatest disinfectant.

Finally, nothing really forced Craig to quit his job. He wasn't going to jail. He wasn't convicted of such a serious crime that the Senate would expel him. He wasn't even censured (which would have been easy in a Democratic-controlled Senate!) Craig quit because his fellow Republicans wanted to get the story off the front page. It was seen as the best of several bad options. It was 'damage control'. He was not actually 'punished' for his crime beyond paying the fine. The rest of the punishment was entirely political, losing at a game in which he himself helped make the rules.

Answer 6

The Democrats simply point out the man's hypocracy but it was the Republicans who asked him to resign. For a couple of reasons they asked him to resign. First the hypocracy doesn't help their party in upcoming elections. They have been caught with so much of that already. Second, here is someone who has participated in activities their party considers uacceptable.

The solicitation of gay sex is not nearly as bad as the hypocracy of it all from a man who bragged about his anti-gay stand. People can tolerate a lie or two from politicians, that comes with being a politician, people can tolerate a little hanky pank with same or opposite sex, but hypocracy is not something people tolerate. Craig is a hypocrite plain and simple and so his head goes on the block for it.

Answer 7

He pled guilty to a very low-level crime, misdemeanor disorderly conduct. It is defined as an act which tends to breach the peace or to disturb those people who hear or see it.
I'm not a libertarian, but I think it's correct to criminalize actions which are very disturbing to others. I don't think any of us would like to come into a bathroom in an airport and see and hear others having sex.

Answer 8

While I could care less if he is gay or straight, the fact remains that solicitation of prostitution (male or female) is a crime. Personally I think prostitution is a victimless crime and the laws need to be changed if not removed.

Answer 9

He plead guilty to a crime, so that's a safe assumption. The man's a Senator for crying out loud. He could've gone to a motel. I don't want to go to an airport bathroom to see or hear people having sex.

Maybe you don't have any decency and that's why it doesn't bother you.

Answer 10

The crime is not the issue. It's the hypocrisy. This is the guy who's been spending years working hard against the rights of homosexuals, and it turns out he's one of them (whether he admits it or not!)

Sometimes, it's the one who yells the loudest that you need to be watching the most.