Did you know some "Top Contributors" and "Top 10 Answerers" can give poor advice?

Question

I'm not naming names and don't want to start a war... I have a 90 gallon Mbuna tank. I have a trio (one male, two female) of Labidochromis freibergi, about 5" long. I also have a trio of Labidochromis caeruleus (yellow labs) about 3" long. A single Psuedotropheus Acei (very pretty fish yellow and purple) that's about 4" long and "spices up" the tank.
Because some people are very adamant about using chemicals and water supplements, I decided not to use them myself. My tap water is fairly soft and of a neutral pH. Some of these people associate low pH with water softness (which isn't always the case).
My first Psuedotropheus Acei looked horrible after about 2 weeks and eventually died of unknown causes. I found it in the rocks partially decomposed, must have been dead a day or two.
My yellow labs were originally a lemon yellow color. Very bright. Later they were a pale yellow.
I started using Kent African Cichlid Rift Lake Trace Elements and Kent Liquid Malawi Buffer.

No fish loss. More active. Better color. If I had followed the advice of some of these people, I'm sure more fish would have passed away and the survivors wouldn't look as good. I plan to add more fish soon. Right now, my second Psuedotropheus Acei is getting used to its new home.
While some folks have good advice and most have good intentions, realize these folks may very well not be the experts they appear to be and to always double and triple check the info you get from them.

Jon V, we have NEVER had any direct conversations, here or elsewhere. Do you have a lot of enemies? I'm the last person to start a war over e-mail. I've been here about 6 weeks. About 3 weeks ago, when I started having doubts about some of the advice given here, I posted a question that may have been taken as inflammatory, and most likely you blocked me then.
I knew I took a hard choice by going to an Mbuna tank. Fortunately I found a dealer and they have been most helpful. Not only do they sell a variety of fish, they have a Mbuna tank "not for sale, display only" because they are into the challenge and good at meeting it. They have been quite a help and I'm glad to find them.
There's people with problems with platies, tetras and bettas. The skill level of keeping those fish is pretty basic. I've done that, successfully. People come here for very basic advice and get it.. Others are in way over their heads, like I was. They are getting advice from people of only basic knowledge.

Answer 1

i can only speak for myself, but remember it is like everyone else. Opinions.

like LL said, there is no set way in fishkeeping, and we only speak from our experience.

Personally i do find some of the info said.... no exactly what i would put, but generallly the info is in the right direction.

The good thing about top contributors is we dontwaste you time writing stupid things like " thanks for the 2 points" "look it up" "i dont know anything about fish"

It isnt like we make anything up... We all have been sucessfully fish for many years.

If i was asking a question, i would rather have someone like a top contributor who will actually point me in the right direction as apose to someone who just passes by and doesnt answer, or worest.....steals info without citing the soruces.


Why is your ph so low, are u using crushed corals that should have raised your ph. im not sure what your saying in this question, but apariently you know it wouldnt work if your water is low in ph.

Answer 2

You are correct,Mbuna need lots of minerals in their water.You are also right about soft water and hardness figures.
The most important factor in your supplements should be kH,the stability factor.
You should also be aware that a high pH causes your Nitrite numbers to go higher,so go slowly when making changes.
The people that advised you against a lot of supplements,were also right. The thing they left out is "keep fish that fit your water". Try this,set up another tank,and try to find some fish that do well in the type of water that you get from your tap,Amazonian fish,Congo River Africans,maybe some Killie's, there are lots of choices. See which tank is easier to maintain,and over the long haul how healthy the fish live.
You are endeavoring to keep fish in a situation that is almost like keeping a salt water tank,so get a good freshwater test kit and learn how to maintain the correct balance in your Mbuna colony.
Good luck,and have fun with your fish.

Answer 3

I've done both with and without the buffers. I have kept peacocks & haps down to 6.7 with co2 injection. They lived just fine.

I have recently broke down and started micromanaging the ph with seachem malwai buffer so that its 7.8. The fish seem much more colorful.

In both setups I had one fish die. The setup with the ph buffer seems to be marginally better.

I would always find out what ph the store is keeping the fish in, and if they're tank bred or wild caught before figuring out how long / gradually to acclimate a fish.

You are aware that fish breeders often dunk their fish in hormone suppliments before selling them to the store in order to bring out their bright colors, right? Most fish sold this way will lose a good bit of color. Juvenile fish aren't supposed to be brightly colored. If they are, they're juiced.

Anyways... there are so many variables that I'm confident two people can get the same kind of fish and have different experiences. The top contributors in question were probably just citing their personal experience.

I'm sure I'm full of it when I reccommend a walking catfish as a good pet. I can pet mine, He eats out of my hand, and he hasn't killed anything that I didn't want him to. I'm sure there are others out there that will kill everything , break the glass in the tank and stab you in the hand when you go to rescue them from the floor. Its just my experience...

Answer 4

I didn't read all the answers, but research of at least 3 sources is recommended. Know your fish before you buy them. Africans are easier too care for than many hobbyists realize and you can keep more per gallon than most other types (highly recommended so a single fish at bottom of pecking order won't get pecked on too much and possibly/probably killed, and then on up the line); with good filtration and aeration of course, and regular partial water changes.

Answer 5

I cannot say what others intentions are, however I think most are good as per trying to help. Both theseeker4, PeeTee and Bettachris make good points. The system here is set up in a way that tends to reward those who have time type away rather those with real experience in practice and research. Also the way the system is set up there is a race to send an answer without totally proof reading and checking resources vs. a well thought out answer. This is an easy to make this mistake (myself included) when in a hurry.

Also many will not spend the time researching past Google (which has an aging algorithm that does not often allow more current relevant information to rise to the top, Yahoo allows forums and more current information for relevancy in search). Open mindedness is an issue I have often found where problems may occur. I have constantly changed my view based on new research and monthly meeting with other in the aquarium/pond maintenance community. I have learned much even from aquarists with less than a year fish keeping experience, so an open mind is always helpful.
Often some sources quoted are outdated or anecdotal information. Also there is much more better funding in human or veterinary research that can be applied to fish keeping that is often ignored.

Finally as already stated, many questions are subjective and the answers can and are often generalizations that no one (again, myself included) can be 100% accurate. Most human medical researches are occasionally wrong too.

I wrote a blog entry about my experience here:
http://fish-as-pets.blogspot.com/2007/08/aquarium-experience.html

Answer 6

With advice regarding pets, as with any other type of advice on the internet, the advice you get is worth what you pay for it. Many people give good, accurate answers, while others may not. Additionally, what works for one person in one tank, may not work for another person in another tank. Just because a fish of yours dies when you are doing what the "experts" are telling you to, does NOT mean they were wrong. Of course, the fact that they are experts does not mean they are always right either. Any true expert aquarist will tell you that despite the best actions taken and the best intentions, sometimes fish just die for no apparant reason. There are so many different variables in each aquarium, there is no one approach that will work for all people or all species of fish. Most experts will say (and are correct as a GENERAL rule) that it is better to match your fish to the water you have available than to try to mess with the chemistry of your water if you are a beginning aquarist.

Answer 7

First off, I'm sorry that you lost some fish. All of us fish owners know it can be/is truly heartbreaking when you lose one, let alone a few, so I'm sorry for that. HOWEVER, there are a few things that we need to keep in perspective here (meaning everyone):
1. First and foremost, It is ULTIMATELY the fish owners responsibility to thoroughly research ANY ADVICE given on here (or any other forum), as you have no clue if what someone is telling you is suitable for your fish and/or if it could be deadly to your particular fish. If you (as in anyone) use a suggestion from someone WITHOUT thoroughly researching it or checking with an expert, and all of your fish die, there is really no one to blame but yourself. Plain and simple (not to be cold, but it is the truth);
2. JUST because people are "top contributors" does NOT mean they are experts, it means that they answer a lot of questions and have shown that they are knowledgeable in a particular category. It does NOT mean that they infallable or always right. They speak from their past experience and do their best to help, as we all do. BUT, as anyone with fish knowledge knows, what works for one may not work for another. With that said, most of the top contributors that I have seen here in fish seem to deserve their top contributor badge. (Note: This does not mean that people without this badge aren't knowledgeable, it could just be that they are new to the forum or haven't answered the amount of questions, etc.)
3. Keep in mind that many times the clerks at pet stores are not well versed in what they do either (no offense to those who do have knowledge, but I found it to be true more often then not). If in doubt, ask a more complex question (have one in mind before you go in) and see what kind of answer you get. (Example of lacking knowledge: There was a post on here the other day wherein someone was asking about giving goldfish fruits and veggies. A person claiming to work in a fish store actually said that they had "NEVER HEARD OF giving fish fruits and veggies". I almost fell off my sofa.) So be careful in pet shops also.
4. People giving answers can only give their opinion on what is described. If you fail to mention anything pertinent, you can very understandably wind up with an answer that will not work for your problem. Detail is the key. (example: "Why is my fish is floating upside down?" (They forgot to mention that they put boiling water in the bowl), but someone answers "Yes, I'm sure it's a fungus" and treat it with Jungle Fever Juice (made up of course). But I've seen questions and answers like this, we all have, I'm sure. It's impossible to give "perfect" answers considering the small amount of info you usually have to go on, but the answers that are given all (or some) help to "point" the person in the right direction. If someone "hits it on the head" for the asker, that's even better.
These forums can be VERY VERY helpful at pointing you in the right direction, but again, it is ultimately the owner's responsibility to THOROUGHLY investigate and research things PRIOR to using the suggested treatment of choice on your fish (this is an undisputable fact). There is no "one set remedy" for ANYTHING that has to do with fish. I am sure though that a LOT of fish have been/will be saved and a lot of heartaches have been/will be avoided through this forum. Best of luck. ;o)

Answer 8

IMO most people know that not one single person knows everything there is to know about fish keeping. Thats why some people leave links while others do research and then pick a best answer.
But I will tell you this, a few "Top Contributors" I don't second guess because they have over 20+ years with dealing with fish and most of them will give you links with the information that you need on it.
The things that people put on here aren't set in stone and you shouldn't try to take things to heart. Most people here are trying to help others.

Answer 9

David Cook

Answer 10

Of course anyone can give poor advice, top contributor or not. As a general rule tho, I've found that the top contributors are more knowledgeable and have far greater experience.

Often times, it's not the fault of the top contributor who is giving the advice. I've found that sometimes, the asker gives incorrect information, doesn't supply enough information, or just doesn't follow the advice correctly. I'm not saying that is always the case. Top contributors are people, just like everyone else. They are subject to making the same mistakes as anyone else. And many non-top contributors are capable of giving sound advice as well.

I think it's a crap shoot sometimes. You have to take the advice given and then do your own research from there. I don't think anyone should rely on anyone else to completely solve their problems. The benefit of the top contributors is that they can usually point you in the right direction, give you a bit of sound advice and send you on your way to learn for yourself. To take the word of anyone as gospel is just a recipe for disaster. You have to be responsible for your own education. And, after all, it's just advice, it's totally up to you whether you choose to follow it or not.