if entropy == disorder, and entropy is always increasing, then a fully formed solar system like ours...?

Question

...is more disordered than the gas cloud it evolved from?

Sounds backwards to me. (Im trying to understand entropy)

Answer 1

Yes - the greater the disorder, the greater the entropy.

Entropy is the measure of a system's energy that is unavailable for work, or of the degree of a system's disorder.

When heat is added to a system held at constant temperature, the change in entropy is related to the change in energy, the pressure, the temperature, and the change in volume. Its magnitude varies from zero to the total amount of energy in a system. The concept, first proposed in 1850 by the German physicist Rudolf Clausius (1822–1888), is sometimes presented as the second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy increases during irreversible processes such as spontaneous mixing of hot and cold gases, uncontrolled expansion of a gas into a vacuum, and combustion of fuel. In popular, nontechnical use, entropy is regarded as a measure of the chaos or randomness of a system

Answer 2

Entropy is really kinda tough to understand, and it can easily lead to tricky questions like this one.

First of all, entropy is not strictly disorder, although it's often construed in that sense. It is true that a highly disordered system, like a gas, generally has more entropy than an ordered system (like a solid). Strictly speaking, entropy is not the same as disorder though.

I always tell my students to think of entropy this way: entropy is a measure of energy that is unavailable to do work. Take an object that contains a lot of potential energy, like a battery. As you use the battery, the potential energy in the battery gets turned into electrical energy, then to sound, light, heat, and kinetic (depending on what kind of device the battery is powering). Eventually, the energy is dissipated away from the battery into the Universe. Since the energy has become more "smoothed out", entropy has increased.

You say entropy is always increasing. That's true if you modify it with the words "in the Universe". Entropy can decrease locally, like when your body synthesizes a protein from simple amino acids. All of these local reversals of entropy MUST be paid for by an even larger increase in entropy somewhere else. For example, plants make glucose from carbon dioxide and water, but only because the Sun provides them the energy to do so. The Sun is constantly raising the entropy of the Universe because the energy produced in its core is spreading and smoothing out.

The planets formed due to gravitational collapse, and as they did, they dissipated a huge amount of heat into space. The gas cloud from which they condensed had a lot more energy than the planets do now, so the second law of thermodynamics was not violated by their formation.

Answer 3

For more on entropy look up thermodynamics. Heat is part of the electromagnetic spectrum; roughly the far-infrared region. All entropy means is that energy TENDS to dissipate, and lower in frequency with reflection. Actually, it always does, but there are many examples where more energy is added to a system than lost through entropy, at least for a time. Lots of people try to make elaborate nihilist philosopical statements from it about chaos and disorder being the rule but thats just because they have some serious entropy in the brain. :-) Entropy has nothing to do with chaos or disorder. For example, the formation of mineral deposites in a cavern is a process of entropy (a local lowering of energy) that results in more order (crystal formation from the chaotic motion of atoms or molecules in solution). Which is similar to your example above. There is more energy in the giant cloud of gas dust and maybe plasma, but as energy dissipates there isnt enough to keep all that material in motion so things gather together, eventually into planets and stars. So entropy does not = disorder, it is roughly equivalent to the concept of dissipation of energy.

Answer 4

No, the entropy is always increasing but at a higher (universal) level. There are some parts where the entropy is reduced but at expenses of the increase of entropy on another parts. The case of the gas cloud is related to certain spots where the gravity force was higher, this gravity attracted the gas and other elements until it formed stars and planets. But the entropy of the empty parts that were left after the planet and/or stars formation is higher than the previous entropy. There is more energy available on a cloud of gas (since the main element of this clouds is hydrogen) than on the stars, where the hydrogen is converted in heavier elements by atomical reactions, and the availability of energy of this resultant elements is less than the original hydrogen cloud.

Answer 5

Entropy is defined as the energy lost per unit temperature during a work process.
The 2nd law of thrmodynamics indicated that no work can be obtained continuously with the same energy input in a process.Hence in order to obtain work there is an energy loss which dissipates in space as a function of temperature.
The energy dissipates in space till it is absorbed by a mass which captures it.
Hence entropy increases on one hand and decrease on the Other. If the masses of the universe absorb only a percentatge of the Energy lost ,then the remainder shows up in space as temperature energy.Presently the temperature energy of the Universe shows up as a radiation which has been observed as 2.7 k.

Answer 6

Actually the 3rd law states "The entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero." Which is not the same thing at all. BTW The laws of thermodynamics were originally formulated to describe conditions in steam engines. The fact that they are only intended to be applied to a closed system like a steam boiler and pistons etc, is not taken into account by amateurs like you who incorrectly apply the laws to the the universe which is by defintion not a closed system.

Answer 7

No, but we (by the sun) are expending energy to keep it more organized. Remember that with the expense of energy, you can temporally reduce entropy, but in the end, it will win.

Answer 8

Entropy isn't disorder. That's where your confusion lays.

Answer 9

false
=45